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Intelligent Design Gets Outside Your Head

Last week on Boing Boing Cory Doctorow posted a link to a New Scientist article about how the ‘Intelligent Design’-aligned Discovery Institute was starting another battlefront against Darwinian evolution – this time employing Cartesian Dualism as their weapon.

I think Cory’s introduction to that story, where he describes Cartesian Dualism as “the idea that the brain is a physical object, but the mind that inhabits it is made from some kind of ghostly jesusite-235 that conclusively proves the existence of the Invisible Sky Daddy in a white robe and beard”, as a rather knee-jerk and simplistic reaction to a complex and fascinating topic. To be fair, his wording is a little obscure and he might have been describing Dualism as Intelligent Design proponents might define it. But the more concerning aspect for me is how the topic might be hijacked, and therefore further marginalised. From the NS article:

[T]he movement certainly seems to hope that the study of consciousness will turn out to be “Darwinism’s grave”, as Denyse O’Leary, co-author with Beauregard of ‘The Spiritual Brain’, put it. According to proponents of ID, the “hard problem” of consciousness – how our subjective experiences arise from the objective world of neurons – is the Achilles heel not just of Darwinism but of scientific materialism. This fits with the Discovery Institute’s mission as outlined in its “wedge document”, which seeks “nothing less than the overthrow of materialism and its cultural legacies”, to replace the scientific world view with a Christian one.

I’ve noted before how, before the religious aspect came into it, the idea of ‘Intelligent Design’ was a scientific and much debated topic. Materialist and co-discoverer of DNA Frances Crick even wrote a book on the topic. So I’m wary that developments in understanding consciousness – at least those which suggest some sort of dualist underpinnings – may now be thrown in the wastebasket as “Creationist nonsense”.

In any case, the comments thread which follows Cory’s posting at Boing Boing makes for good reading – there’s some very intelligent commentary (amidst the usual fare, which you’ll have to filter out!). Hey, I even got “disemvoweled” for criticising Cory’s simplistic opening (which I find rather odd, considering that there was nothing inflammatory or vulgar about it – simply a critique of his statement…so much for teh free speech!).

Would love to go into more detail on this story, but have a busy day ahead – perhaps I’ll revisit some of the topics in a future post. Readers interested in really heading down the rabbit hole with dualism and other topics of an immaterial mind, should definitely check out the textbook-like exposition in Irreducible Mind (Amazon US and UK).

Editor
  1. Hmmm
    I’ve read up to comment #39 so far.

    And I agree that studying and maybe even proving the existence of the soul does not negate the validity of Evolution; even the existence of a soul does not necessarily imply a Creator, as there are other theories that explore the idea of universal consciousness, or maybe even biological evolution permits the emergence of a consciousness that can survive the death of the body.

    And even if the existence of the soul proves the existence of a Creator, that does not mean it is the Christian version as promoted in the Bible. Maybe the Pastafarians are right after all! 😉

    By all means, let’s explore the subject of consciouness. Wherever it should take us, it will only enrich our knowledge of ourselves and our place in the Universe… if we let our bias out for a moment.

    —–
    It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
    It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

    Red Pill Junkie

  2. Defusing Cartersian Dualism
    Rene Descartes only came up with the mind-body dualism to avoid Galileo’s fate. The latter was ex-communicated from the Catholic church for claiming the Earth wasn’t the center of the universe. Descartes came up with the dualism concept to give the church an untouchable and unknowable place to claim the soul lived, and so avoid being persecuted for his true beliefs, that the mind was a function of brain, which is itself a part of the body. It was a fraud from the start, and it’s apparently going to be used that way again. Doesn’t matter though — you can present the truth to the ID people time after time and they remain resistant to it. So maybe fraud is too strong a word. Perhaps “self-enforced ignorance” is better.

    From the Wikipedia entry on Descartes: “The question of how a nonmaterial mind could influence a material body, without invoking supernatural explanations, remains controversial to this day.”

    The solution is simple. The problem is with language. Mind is a verb. Brain is a noun. Mind is what brain does. Mind cannot happen without brain, so mind is a subset of brain. Mind is an outcome phenomenon of physiological processes. Mind cannot happen without brain in place.

    No, I am not the brain specialist…..
    YES. Yes I AM the brain specialist.

    1. Material and immaterial
      [quote]”The question of how a nonmaterial mind could influence a material body, without invoking supernatural explanations, remains controversial to this day.”[/quote]

      How do we know the mind is ‘nonmaterial’? Perhaps it is made of a form of matter that we have yet to detect with our current technology.

      The ID guys and other folks would maybe like to have the soul separated from the rest of the material Universe, but that may not be the case. You could still have a soul that survives the death of the biological body, and still be made of matter that obeys the laws of physics.

      Or, we could go with the holographic mind argument too. But a hologram must still be made or something, right? a coherent energy. ‘Coherent’ being the key on this whole debacle here, I think.

      —–
      It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
      It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

      Red Pill Junkie

    2. Galileo
      It is interesting that, to this day, Galileo gets all this press for “discovering” that the Earth is not at the center of the universe.

      He didn’t discover any such thing. Everyone had read Copernicus by then. Galileo was just loud, and in the right place (Italy) to be recognized. He didn’t invent the telescope either, he bought one.

      After being unduly critical of Galileo, who was a great man and much more important than me, I now mention the Galileo project of ESA. What is keeping them from actually doing something? Their “latest news” on their website is about 3 years old.

      —-
      It is not how fast you go
      it is when you get there.

    3. Belief
      [quote=DynaSoar]The solution is simple. The problem is with language. Mind is a verb. Brain is a noun. Mind is what brain does. Mind cannot happen without brain, so mind is a subset of brain. Mind is an outcome phenomenon of physiological processes. Mind cannot happen without brain in place.[/quote]

      It’s a simple solution, but it’s also just substituting a belief, the same as the ID folks might. The belief might be right, but it’s certainly not proven.

      Kind regards,
      Greg
      ——————————————-
      You monkeys only think you’re running things

  3. RPJ
    I understand exactly where you are coming from and I am not far behind you. Your points are valid and need to be heeded by those who think they know it all.

    Whether or not my own perception of the mind/brain/soul is correct or not, none of us have any right to say our views are the only ones that can be available. No-one has been able to detect the soul, and until they do will continue to pursue their view regardless.

    I think there are many things in this universe which would follow some law of physics but for which we have not yet devised a machine to detect them. I leave my own ideas open to other possibilities.

    Carol A Noble

  4. Earthling
    You are right about Galileo not being the first to “discover” the earth was not the centre of the Universe. Information is slowly coming forward to suggest this had been known for thousands of years, but only really changed when religions of various kinds wanted to control the masses and so insisted they were the only ones who knew what the truth was, and over time the old ideas disappeared and the newer ones were reinforced. That is one of the factors that Pullman tried to show in his stories. It is also happening today in other fields of knowledge!

    As for the telescope not being discovered by Galileo, again you are right, and Nicholas Harriet, is now said to have mapped the moon long before Galileo using a telescope he had bought from someone who had discovered it. Only now is Nicholas Harriet (Harriot or Hariot) begun to come to the public light. He was an extremely intelligent clever man, who was more interested in the discovery than having the public acknowledge him as the “inventor”. This is why so little of his work was published at the time. But he truly was someone who needs to be recognised, and the telescope along with it.

    Carol A Noble

  5. Argh
    I was cringing as I read this piece in NS, to which I subscribe (see, one can support the reality of psi and survival and still be all for science), because it commits the sin of CONFLATING religious belief with the immateriality of mind. That’s going to hurt the cause of intelligent consciousness research, make no mistake.

    I think it’s important to continue spreading the meme that mind/brain and consciousness, to say nothing of survival, are topics that have nothing whatsoever to do with religion or God, or ID. If the mind can genuinely transcend the material brain (my belief, based on stacks of evidence for psi, DMILS, distant healing and even remote mental influence of quantum systems a la Dean Radin) is that the brain is like a transmitter that indeed produces the mind, but then radiates the mind outward as a causal field that entangles with everything and everyone else), then it’s naturalistic, a consequence of our very strange reality.

    1. Woo woo alert!
      [quote=pacificwhim]I was cringing as I read this piece in NS, to which I subscribe (see, one can support the reality of psi and survival and still be all for science)[/quote]

      *snort* The reality of psi? You’re obviously unscientific and a danger to rational thought! Woo-woo alert!
      😉

      Kind regards,
      Greg
      ——————————————-
      You monkeys only think you’re running things

        1. Don’t worry
          We will forward him a photo with your face, so he’ll include it in those bus ads he’s promoting in London 😛

          —–
          It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
          It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

          Red Pill Junkie

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