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Hate Crimes Against Crackers

Normally, when you hear about crackers and hate crimes, you’d be thinking something else – but this one isn’t quite as it seems…

There’s been a number of discussions on TDG lately (in blogs and comments) about the fundamentalist dichotomy of religion vs materialism/atheism, and how the debate between the sides offers little in the way of progress. Right on schedule, here comes the case study:

Controversy (somehow) erupted last week when a university student from Florida stole the body of Christ – and by that, I mean the Eucharist, aka ‘a cracker’. Megapopular atheist blogger P.Z. Myers took the opportunity to boggle at the craziness of the situation, in his usual unsubtle manner. (Although it’s hard not to be on his side in this particular case):

Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers? There’s no way I can personally get them — my local churches have stakes prepared for me, I’m sure — but if any of you would be willing to do what it takes to get me some, or even one, and mail it to me, I’ll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won’t be tempted to hold it hostage (no, not even if I have a choice between returning the Eucharist and watching Bill Donohue kick the pope in the balls, which would apparently be a more humane act than desecrating a goddamned cracker), but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web. I shall do so joyfully and with laughter in my heart.

Myers’ own little rant then got Bill Donohue and the Catholic League looking for *his* head as well:

Paul Zachary Myers, a professor at the University of Minnesota Morris, has pledged to desecrate the Eucharist…

…Catholic League president Bill Donohue responded as follows:

“The Myers blog can be accessed from the university’s website. The university has a policy statement on this issue which says that the ‘Contents of all electronic pages must be consistent with University of Minnesota policies, local, state and federal laws.’ One of the school’s policies, ‘Code of Conduct,’ says that ‘When dealing with others,’ faculty et al. must be ‘respectful, fair and civil.’ Accordingly, we are contacting the President and the Board of Regents to see what they are going to do about this matter. Because the university is a state institution, we are also contacting the Minnesota legislature.

“It is hard to think of anything more vile than to intentionally desecrate the Body of Christ. We look to those who have oversight responsibility to act quickly and decisively.”

Personally, I can think of a lot more vile things than doing nasty things to a cracker. On the other hand, when you purposefully act to anger someone by stepping on their beliefs, you’ve got to expect some trouble in return. Although in this case, I think Myers’ post was a fair response to what is – quite simply – an over-the-top (some might say ‘crazy’) reaction to the original ‘crime’.

Editor
  1. No grace for PZ
    I’m as critical of the Vatican as the next person, but I’m glad to see Myers get his comeuppance. He’d be whining like me at a cheese festival if he was slandered on a university website. Consider it karma, without the grace. 😉

    It’s so refreshing to see the posterboys of skepticism engaging in mature, courteous and intelligent debate over important social issues. 😉

    1. Misery loves company
      It’s really refreshing and reassuring to find out, after that whole Mohammed-Comix fiasco of last year, that things are just as twisted in the fringes over on the other side of the fence. Like I always say, “No one peoples has the monopoly on stupidity

      And I suppose it’s good that the fringes are twisted. Otherwise they would frey 🙂

      In the westernized-Buddhist therapy practice of Constructive Living there is a pseudo-koanic test-puzzle that goes, “A dinner guest mistakes your statue of Buddha for an ashtray. What do you do?” The answer they seek would be something like “You get them an ashtray, and then discreetly wipe your statue clean and put it back” Nobody loses. No fatwas. No lawsuits. No baggage, just the facts, ma’am. Just the compassion that recognizes how innocence cannot know what it does not know and how the ‘magic’ is all in our heads, not in the dead external objects; you can take a Ritz for a Eucharist, if you have to.

      in other news, on the subject of Religion (not Faith) living comfortably with Science (not Materialism) I loved Roger Scruton’s thoughtful essay “The Return of Faith” — which is to say I loved it, but that sadly, because of that whole non-monopoly principle, as well said as it is, it cannot stand as a final word.

  2. 2 comments
    Carol A Noble

    I have two separate comments which I will place together regarding the above blog entry.

    Materialism and Atheism do not automatically go together. Not everyone who doesn’t believe in God believes only in a material world. We are human beings and whether we like it or not we have a dimension to us which does not belong in the ordinary material world. Talk about atheism v religion but not materialism against religion. Many religions actually encourage people to give up their material goods and support a very spartan way of life for spiritual reward.

    The second point is regarding value of things. We all have different values on objects; I personally only view money as a means to deal with people within society because that is what they and others consider to be the most valuable thing around. Personally, I consider money to actually be a false commodity and therefore the value is false but that is my view, not others, and I am not going to be able to persuade them to change so I have to respect their desire to use this mode of currency in business dealings. In the past people used to barter, or use other items as currency. In the future it won’t be anything solid which we can handle but electronic credits which can be increased or decreased in an instant. To Christians, especially Catholics, the wafer is a representative of Christ’s body, and for them it is extremely valuable. Therefore we should at least respect their belief and their values, even if we don’t agree with them.

    1. Clarification
      [quote=Carol_Noble]Materialism and Atheism do not automatically go together. Not everyone who doesn’t believe in God believes only in a material world. We are human beings and whether we like it or not we have a dimension to us which does not belong in the ordinary material world. Talk about atheism v religion but not materialism against religion. Many religions actually encourage people to give up their material goods and support a very spartan way of life for spiritual reward. [/quote]

      Hi Carol,

      Materialism in this context means those who say there is nothing else but the ‘material’/physical world. That is, there are no other planes of existence, no god(s) etc.

      Kind regards,
      Greg
      ——————————————-
      You monkeys only think you’re running things

  3. Ambivalence and the value of symbols
    What amazes more about this story is my own personal ambivalence about it.

    I was raised a catholic, and attended catholic schools all my life (even college); there was a time when I was REALLY close to the Church and tried to be devout to my faith—I went to see the Pope to San Juan de Los Lagos, when he came to Mexico, and even did a couple of Evangelization trips—but, as anyone who has read my comments know, over time I distanced myself from the Church dogmas because I no longer believe in the claims of institutionalized religions and their so-called Monopoly on Truth.

    And yet this story disturbs me; I guess no matter how apart you think you are, deep down there will always be a remnant of your old faith.

    But what exactly disturbs me? Well, the initial disrespect of this young man for other people’s faith, but not as much as the way they reacted inside the Church and —allegedly—physically forced him to surrender the consecrated host. But let’s face it: during communion there are A LOT of people—specially during social reunions like weddings—who stand up and take the Communion eventhough they haven’t confessed in years! That’s even more disrespectful—or sinful if you prefer—than what this dumbass did.

    But I guess what’s more annoying to me is Myer’s response. It really is true what some catholic friends often told me: Criticizing christianity is one of the only remnant “politically correct” forms of prejudism in our society. You mess with the muslims and you are bigot, but it’s ok to make fun of those loony catholics with their Communion and their Pope. Maybe some idiots think that’s a way of payback for the Inquisition?

    It is not about a piece of bread, it is about the value we give to symbols. Suppose someone decides to make the prank of entering a jewish sinagogue wearing an arm band with a Swastika; I’m quite sure that would make a lot more commotion than this little news.

    Or what if Obama were to wear a communist medal on his suit’s lapel? Bye bye Presidency!

    So I guess it is stupid that we humans give so much weight to material symbols, and yet we do. We are the ones who infuse them with power. If a kid goes out with a T-Shirt with a slogan that read “F**k Zeus”, nobody would give a damn, but what if instead of a forgotten greek deity we used instead the name of a deity who still had followers?

    —–
    It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
    It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

    Red Pill Junkie

    1. Spot on.
      [quote=red pill junkie]It is not about a piece of bread, it is about the value we give to symbols. Suppose someone decides to make the prank of entering a jewish sinagogue wearing an arm band with a Swastika; I’m quite sure that would make a lot more commotion than this little news.[/quote]

      Hi RPJ,

      I was thinking about this topic last night, and was going to comment this morning – but you’ve taken the words right out of my mouth. It’s about disrespect for things that people find meaningful.

      I still think the Catholic reaction has been over the top…as I said, I can think of many more “vile” things that have been perpetrated. Though it could be argued that, for (real) Christians, the symbolism of Christ is the most important thing in their world – their material life (body, possessions) pales into insignificance. It is, as you say, all about the symbolism and meaning invested in it.

      Kind regards,
      Greg
      ——————————————-
      You monkeys only think you’re running things

      1. Cook
        In addition to what Greg and RPJ are saying – is is my impression that Cook ( the “thief”) just enjoys being a naughty boy.

        —-
        The large print giveth,
        The small print taketh away.

  4. serious people
    Cook talks about “student government” in that article. It seems that his somewhat silly actions go along with taking himself way too seriously.

    When I was a student I always objected to the term student government. In North America these are students elected within departments, so that they represent the student’s concerns. Yet some of them seem to think that they govern the students.

    —-
    The large print giveth,
    The small print taketh away.

  5. Anger leads to the dark side
    Sadly, this is all of a piece with the true purpose behind organized skepticism and fundamentalist atheism: to give non-believers an excuse to feel vastly superior to the “fucktards” (to use one potent pejorative from the comment thread) who believe in, well, anything but hard science. It’s all about smug superiority, personal attack and self-congratulation. No wonder these people are so angry–they only have themselves for company.

    BTW, I rejected the Catholic Church 25 years ago, when I was 18, after I realized it was a monstrously repressive organization. But that doesn’t matter. It means everything millions, many of whom are far smarter than Myers.

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