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Sam Harris on ‘Life’ Beyond Death

Prominent atheist Sam Harris has a couple of videos on YouTube in which he answers questions from Reddit users, covering everything from atheist ethics to alien abductions and life after death. Harris is an interesting one – he seems very open to some specific ‘spiritual’ approaches to life, and edge science topics like parapsychology, while also being a vociferous critic of formal religion and a hardcore proselytiser for the scientific orthodoxy. Whether you agree or disagree with his views, I think he still makes for an interesting person to sit down at a table with and discuss some of the deeper topics in life, religion and science. You can watch the first part at YouTube, and I’ve embedded the second ‘conversation’ below:

Here’s an interesting excerpt from his response to the question “In the absence of religious belief, how do you talk to a child about death?” (at 21:50):

There’s this taboo in our society around admitting we don’t know… that seems to me to be a problem. It’s actually the basis for exploring anything honestly, to admit that you don’t know.

Now with death, I can honestly say I don’t know what happens after death. There are reasons to be skeptical of survival of death. There are certainly reasons to be skeptical of any specific story about survival, but in terms of the relationship between consciousness and the physical world, I’m not in a position to say “oh yeah, I know exactly what happens after death – you are zeroed out in precisely the way you are zeroed out before your birth.”

Now, there are good reasons to believe that’s true, based on what we know about the brain, but this is not a matter of scientific certainty and if consciousness were in some way independent of the brain, I wouldn’t expect the world to appear much differently, or any differently than it does now… there’s a mystery to consciousness.

But I don’t see the giving of false promises and false fears to children to be paying any kinds of dividends that we want to conserve in our culture.

…I think we can honestly say we don’t know what happens.

I think this is a fine response, although I’ve pulled out one section (in italics) that I just don’t agree with. If consciousness *were* found to be independent of the brain, the entire modern Western worldview is tipped on its head – and furthermore, a whole lot of avenues are added to the map of reality, many of which may well lead to places that committed atheists have plainly said don’t exist.

Nevertheless, it’s a breath of fresh air to see a high-profile neuroscientist (and atheist) not simply parroting the talking points, and being honest enough to say that, at this point, consciousness remains a mystery, and we *just don’t know* if there’s something beyond death. (This isn’t the first time I’ve posted about Harris discussing this topic)

Which is all the more reason to consider scientific exploration of these areas not only a valid endeavour, but an important one – rather than dismissing it as fringe science.

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  1. I think you’re misreading the
    I think you’re misreading the part you say you disagree with. I believe Harris is saying “I wouldn’t expect the world to appear much differently TO ME…” As in, “Consciousness could be separate from the brain, and I could still have five senses and do experiments that seem inconclusive about consciousness being separate from the brain.”

    1. Hmmm
      [quote=jakobus1]I think you’re misreading the part you say you disagree with. I believe Harris is saying “I wouldn’t expect the world to appear much differently TO ME…” As in, “Consciousness could be separate from the brain, and I could still have five senses and do experiments that seem inconclusive about consciousness being separate from the brain.”[/quote]

      Fair point – I contemplated that’s what he was meaning, but it seems a bit redundant (or at least, stated backwards).

  2. Your God
    Mr. Harris, you go against all God intended you to be. You receive your very name and heritage from God. God chose the Jews to reveal Himself to the world. He gave you the Patriarchs, the divine glory, the covenants, the law, the temple worship, the promises, and through the Jews is the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all.

    God told Abraham that through him and his descendants He would bless the world. You are one of his descendants, yet you use the gifts, talents, and abilities God has given you to war against God and to lead people away from their Maker.

    Can a person with abilities given to him by his Creator, go to war against His Maker with those abilities and prevail?

    God is gracious. He is in the business of forgiving. It’s not too late for you to be the blessing God intended you to be. http://atheistlegitimacy.blogspot.com/

    1. from the Marketplace-of-Ideas-Dept.
      downtown_dave,

      I find that atheists share a lot in common with women, homosexuals and, in the US, ‘blacks’; they all are having to deal with a privileged class. Religion and Christianity have enjoyed privilege. Now, all these people are trying to do is to ensure that everyone gets their equal rights to practice what they find meaningful (be it G_d or UFOs or children) without someone else making laws or breaking the rule of law to stifle them. Isn’t that an admirable goal for all of us to try to achieve, no matter what you self-identify as?

  3. Wow!!!!
    I think it’s great, or is that bad, that we can all interpret that remark so differently!

    I’ll throw in my geologists hat.

    [quote]and if consciousness were in some way independent of the brain, I wouldn’t expect the world to appear much differently, or any differently than it does now[/quote]

    I read this as currently we look at the world and see a world of mountains and grass, volcanoes and beaches. Look closer and we see chemistry and physics building the world we walk on. Limestone cliffs made of calcium carbonate. Dolomite beds, siliceous clays and sands and igneous eruptions and intrusions. A sky of nitrogen and oxygen. Looking at life we see DNA changing across species and across generations.

    I know it’s used for other ideas, but I think the word ‘transformationalism’ might be apt there. I guess I am not a transformationalist. I believe that, for example, the recipe for baking bread will not be radically altered by survival of consciousness in exactly the same way as the importance of thermodynamics in magma flow etc. I think we reach out with our minds, starting from a position of zero understanding, and really do learn things about the world – and that then new understanding adds to it, but doesn’t necessarily radically alter other understandings. Though obviously occasionally it is such a radical new description that it does do.

    I guess my main point is that so far no theory of the afterlife does change the nature of volcanoes or the birds and the bees. Of scolding yourself with hot water or needing to sit down after running too far.

    Thats how I read it. That the obvious, like the massive transformation in human culture and self understanding, would not change neccessarily change the ‘physical’ world.

    Actually, I’ve veered a little of my point. When I originally read it I also read it as ‘though we might be different in our self opinion and society I wouldn’t expect the physical world we walk around on and interact with to suddenly change because we have had a sea change in our perspective’.
    Something along the lines of ‘the world is as it is whether built by a deity, or being reflective of a higher dimensionality of consciousness – don’t expect it to change just to suit our self perspective’. And I guess especially since even proof of the survival of the personality after death shouldn’t make us lose our place. After all the old chestnut of ‘science can always be wrong’ isn’t going to go away just because it has come up with an answer we like. Plus, as ever, it wouldn’t mean we necessarily had any more of a real grasp of the universe than we have now measured against whatever the totality of reality is. All the arguments used against science would remain usable – though would I be presumptuous in thinking they would be used a little less?

    I agree with you though Greg. It would turn things upside down. Not just the West though, but the whole world. Most atheists and agnostics, albeit perhaps badly, are just asking for better theory and evidence while becoming bogged down in the mental trap of self affirmance and self belief – provide the evidence and many would jump on board without too much of an issue. Perhaps the proven reality would be enough to ensure no crisis of belief or confidence in the other 80-90% of the world (and yes, even the majority of the West, who polls tell us are no agnostic or atheistic), but it might be too much to hope for a nice pleasant swing across to the new scientific view. Especially since, given the funding issues and political issues around the world, any scientific discovery of an afterlife is likely to come from the west (isn’t that where most of the research and institutions are?). So imagine western science coming to understand what survival after death actually meant, how it happened etc. Now imagine how other countries and people (such as militant Islamist’s) would react to the new west trying to share it’s new understanding. I can imagine all the ways different theologians would say it proved their version and theirs alone and how science was wrong in its assumptions of what proof of the afterlife meant etc etc etc. Just a thought.

    1. Funding
      Yes, proof of an external aspect of consciousness wouldn’t probably change our views about other Natural laws like thermodynamics, but I bet it might improve our understanding of them in ways we can’t really grasp at the moment. Like, maybe decoding why Nature likes to arrange itself through mathematical constants like Phi, for example.

      Plus, I bet that people would demand that more funding went to the study of life after death than to the study of other scientific endeavors —like Space exploration, perhaps.

      If there *is* life after death, then can we invent an effective transmitter that would enable us to speak to our dead grandma? and what about finding a way to let those dead folks take on new living bodies? the possibilities would be virtually endless.

      1. Yeah, exactly.
        Me

        Yeah, exactly.

        Me might/would? see a revolution in one aspect of our understanding that would almost certainly knock on in others. Obviously all we do is betray our own ideologies and romances if we speculate about what will, or will not, change in terms of our understanding, but that doesn’t stop us 🙂

        Perhaps i’ve been infected with Reverse NOMA (ReNOMA 🙂 ) in speculating over where the divide will be, rather than where confluence will occur.

        What makes me consider something like ReNOMA is the idea that in some way life after death is not going to be a standard ‘naturalistic’ entanglement of an answer – whereby material and natural relationships and interactions are not the answer – i.e. no new particles or quantum explanations or something ‘easy’ like that (something we already have common experience with, i.e. the discovery of new particles and mathematical insights over the past 150 years). If life after death turns out to be of the ‘natural’ category then I think it is easier to consider it changing other natural relationships. If it turns out to be in some way divorced from nature, literally something utterly different, then who knows what it will do – even to the point of existing in some sort of separate body of understanding. Maybe something like how we might study theoretical universes today, changing constants and playing with what happens – the connection would be at the start point in the physics, but the theoretical universe that you play with is disconnected from ours and has no affect on it (i.e. changing gravity in it does not affect star formation here).

        As for why nature arranges itself in certain ways, yep it might provide answers. Who knows. I’m just as interested in whether it doesn’t though. I’m going to find it just as fascinating to wonder whether we exist in another dimension of a multiverse (where did that dimension come from?) and whether we are able to populate universes with suitable sets of universal constants (perhaps some universes are off limits, maybe equivalent to bad weather that cannot be travelled, but for trans-dimensional energy beings). So maybe we wait from outside the universes for a suitable one to emerge, then wait further for a suitable solar system and planet to evolve, and then wait for a suitable life form – than jump!

        1. Yet another theorist who has
          Yet another theorist who has apparently not even bothered to turn on the TV and watch a few episodes of “Ghost Adventures,” “The Haunted.” “A Haunting,” “Celebrity Ghost Stories.” “Haunted Collector,” et al. It is like these guys are trapped in time 20 years ago. They either willfully ignore the data coming in from these shows or they are just too lazy to keep up.

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