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News Briefs 20-09-2004

Sorry the news is very light today. Events have conspired to deny me the time for a longer news.

  • Ether – a null result, or an anulled result?
  • A newly discovered ancient tomb?
  • DNA study reveals a Phoenician-Maltese link.
  • How ancient Sinhala Brahmi numerals were invented.
  • Body clocks hinder space travel.
  • Utah holds secrets of ancient civilisation.
  • Genes expose secrets of sex on the side.
  • Should history recant itself?
  • Saturn’s Translucent Rings.
  • 1918 killer flu virus to be tested in UW lab.
  • Government Insider Says Bush
    Authorized 911 Attacks.

  • Pre-emptive strike on Iran on the cards?
  • Space: the path not taken.
  • China’s GM trees get lost in bureaucracy.

Quote of the Day:

Our remedies oft in ourselves do lie.

William Shakespeare

    Don’t only they authorized the attacks,
    they knew the hour of the attacks too…
    But maybe this is only my fanciful congecture…

  2. propaganda
    I’m outa here.

    the propaganda subsided for awhile but I see it’s sneaking back.

    I guess TDG might as well partner up with Rense

    Good bye to the old TDGers


    1. Not so fast..
      Hang around, Twin. It’s all smoke and mirrors.

      SH: “He (Bush) had seen simulated videos of this. In fact, he even made a Freudian slip a few months later at a California press conference when he said he had, quote, “seen on television the first plane attack the first tower.” And that could not be possible because there was no video.”

      Wrong, wrong, wrong. It’s in the CNN archives, you can view it for yourself. Taken from the ground by what looks like FD personnel, or someone accompanying FD personnel on a routine task. You hear the plane go overhead at really high speed, and then the camera pans up to see the impact on the north tower.

      In my opinion, this is just another shlock lawyer looking to profit from the fears and gullibility of ignorant people, and maybe alter the course of the election. I understand your disgust, however. But think about it; TDG presents alternate viewpoints on almost everything, which gets the ol’ think box working. Like I tell the religious nuts: if your faith won’t stand a little questioning, you don’t have faith.


      “If you tell a big enough lie, and tell it often enough, it will be believed.” Adolf Hitler

      1. Not so fast
        What I remember of this is that it was said the video of the first strike had not been shown yet.

        Does anyone have the timings of these events? When the alledged ‘slip’ was done VS when the video was actually shown on TV?

        1. Timing
          You’d have to check with CNN on the timing, but the accuser’s own statement says Bush’s remark came “months later”.

          Now the next accusation would be “the video was faked, or doctored”. Some people are determined to be conspired against, no matter how much it strains credulity or goes against common sense. Do you suppose the film crew making the documentary that caught the footage of the first plane didn’t know what they had filmed?

          There are any number of conspiracy theories about this, just like everything else people can use to further their “ignorant, dependent, afraid” agenda. You wanna be all three? Help yourself, but don’t insult my intelligence with accusations, paranoia, and fuzzy video clips.


          “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.” Mark Twain

        2. I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw

          Q One thing, Mr. President, is that you have no idea how much you’ve done for this country. And another thing is that, how did you feel when you heard about the terrorist attack? (Applause.)

          THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Jordan. Well, Jordan, you’re not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my Chief of Staff, Andy Card — actually, I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower — the TV was obviously on. And I used to fly, myself, and I said, well, there’s one terrible pilot. I said, it must have been a horrible accident.

          But I was whisked off there, I didn’t have much time to think about it. And I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my Chief of Staff, who is sitting over here, walked in and said, “A second plane has hit the tower, America is under attack

          1. Classroom faux pas?
            I read the entire transcript. I suppose if you want to, you could read into it the idea that the Prez said he saw the first plane, but that’s not what he said. He said he saw “a plane” hit the tower.

            Let’s examine a few things.

            First, how many times in the first three hours after the tragedy did you see the video of the 2nd plane hitting the tower? On every network, in every city, it was replayed dozens, if not hundreds of times. With media cameras trained on every possible angle of that scene, you could call it “saturation coverage”.

            Second, it’s quite possible that the aide was confirming what Bush had already seen, that required official validation. Who do you think got word of the 2nd crash first, the media, with ongoing live coverage, or Bush’s advisers in Florida?

            Third, he was speaking to a classroom full of young people, almost three months after the incident, not testifying under oath with an eye to minute chronological detail. Most of us can’t remember what we had for lunch a week ago, and we’re not under much pressure.

            Last, but not least, do you seriously believe that you would find that allegedly incriminating evidence on a GOVERNMENT website, for public scrutiny, so every paranoid yahoo in the world could pick up on it? And after the lunatic fringe raised their hue and cry, would it still be there in its original form?

            Some people hate Bush and America so much that they actually hope this conspiracy theory is true. Nothing would please them more than to validate the diseased “journalism” of the Michael Moores of the world. They want to blame the ills of the world, and America, on those in power. They want Americans to feel bad about themselves, their country, and their leadership.

            Come back when you have some evidence that will stand up in a court of law, under oath. So far, all we’ve got is a lot of mean-spirited, paranoid B.S.


            “Slowly I turn; step-by-step, inch-by-inch I creep up on him..”
            Moe Howard

          2. Resurrected Stooge?
            Sorry, wrong number. They might have much in common, but not being from OZ, I can’t say.

            If that seems cryptic, my bad. Moe Howard was the leader and central figure of “The Three Stooges”. If you already knew that, apologies. πŸ™‚


          3. Mean spirited?
            i wasn’t trying to be mean at all, just trying to clarify the time he said it, nothing more.

            Sorry i pissed you off : i didn’t mean to make you all defensive.


          4. Not personal
            Not pissed off, at you or anyone in particular. I just don’t like disinformation, especially when it’s used by people in a negative way. Again, not you in particular. Many people would jump on that incomplete and out-of-context quote and construe it to be proof of the allegations. This is a place for dialogue, and my comments weren’t directed at you personally. Sorry I made YOU all defensive.


    2. Let’s see

      Jameske posts one story about a 9/11 conspiracy theory and the “propaganda” is sneaking back?

      I’m scanning for your comments complaining about Bill’s stories such as “It’s time for Muslims to stand up for the once-noble, nearly lost traditions of their faith and condemn what Arab and Chechen terrorists and blasphemers did in the Russian town of Beslan” and “France, Russia and China supplied Saddam Hussein with missiles, arms, defense technology and spare parts before β€” and after β€” the start of the Iraq war, an explosive new book claims.” Unfortunately I haven’t found them yet.

      Propaganda is when a one-sided view is presented continually and no dissenting comments are allowed. I don’t think that’s indicative of TDG at all.

      Peace and Respect
      You monkeys only think you’re running things

      1. Posts
        Just for the record, both articles, “It’s time for Muslims to stand up for the once-noble, nearly lost traditions of their faith and condemn what Arab and Chechen terrorists and blasphemers did in the Russian town of Beslan” and “France, Russia and China supplied Saddam Hussein with missiles, arms, defense technology and spare parts before β€” and after β€” the start of the Iraq war, an explosive new book claims.” were submissions from readers of TDG. I did choose to post them, but both were submitted to me.


  3. Good hell in a handbasket, Neo Lib strikes again
    Holy damn, how can you post such blatant extreme neo lib garbage and call yourself a fair person Jameske? If you are going to post that kind of nonsense why don’t you balance it with posting about the Swift Boat Veterans and what they have to say, CBS and how they are caught in the decades biggest lie to try and help Kerry get elected or even about how John Kerry got thousands of POW’s in vietnam tortured with his lying senate testimony? Where are your articles on that?

    I just can’t help but laugh wondering the types of sewage portal sites you must frequent to dig up such horendous propaganda nonsense.

    Greg, is there any way on the next revision to TDG, you can make a filter so that we can filter out certain ‘contributors’ ( or more like campaigners)? I get really tired of some of your ‘helpers’ and their Anti American, Communist or anti religious news posts.

    Am I alone in feeling this way about TDG as of late?

    My biggest fear of Bush getting re elected is to have to sit through a year of Jamske’s posts about how it was all fixed by the seceret trilateral nazi conservative evil socieities, and Cernig’s posts about how The nazi narrow minded christian crusaders have taken over the polling system and wasted all of China’s millions they gave to the Kerry campaign.
    I’m not sure I can handle my favorite site being sabotages so badly much longer.

    Thrustbucket –

    1. Cow pies
      Hey, Thrust –

      Don’t take it so hard. If you get off the beaten track, you’re gonna step in some cow pies. Everybody has an agenda, it seems, even the “Anonymoids” with sixth-grade writing skills and not enough conviction to sign their names. Reminds me of Howler monkeys, dancing around the campfire on the edge of darkness, hooting derisively and hurling feces at those gathered in the circle of light.

      For every honest journalist, there’s a bunch of yellow fellows, preying upon the weak-minded, the gullible, and the frightened. Keep in mind that they want us to be three things:

      1. Ignorant
      2. Dependent
      3. Afraid

      I welcome dissent; it makes you check your mental maps for accuracy. My only requirement is that evidence be presented to support it; not allegations, accusations, innuendo, hearsay, my cousin Vinnie says, or my neighbor’s daughter’s boyfriend is a Navy Seal, so he knows everything the mean old government is up to. Take heart; all of us sigh at some of the wackos out there, but if the TDG editors didn’t try to give us a thorough cross-section, I’d feel cheated (and I wouldn’t get so many really good laughs).


      “Take the red pill, and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.” Morpheus

    2. Freedom
      Hi Thrustbucket,
      Years ago I knew someone who countered every argument with a passage from a book.
      “There!” he’d say, shoving the book under my nose,
      “It’s written in black and white, it must be true”.
      Nope, being in black and white does not necessarily make things true.
      I rarely check out the sites cited in arguments in this forum.I read widely and I trust myself to believe what I think is right.
      Are you worried that someone will convince you that you are wrong?
      You don’t have to.
      You can choose to ignore the whole thing.
      You can choose to skip over the posts you think you won’t like.
      You can agree to disagree with the poster.
      You can accept if you go to sites offered that they may not necessarily be true.
      What you cannot do, it to take away people’s freedoms to have other opinions than your’s.
      And where did that idea come from, I wonder.



    3. Here’s a thought
      Thrustbucket wrote:

      > Greg, is there any way on the next revision to TDG, you can make a
      > filter so that we can filter out certain ‘contributors’ ( or more
      > like campaigners)? I get really tired of some of your ‘helpers’ and
      > their Anti American, Communist or anti religious news posts.

      Yes, I already have that filter installed here on my system. It’s called “free will”. It works like this – when I see a story that I don’t agree with, I either (a) skip it, (b) read it to educate myself further or (c) read it and post a comment debating the point.

      Alternatively, if you want to filter out a particular poster, you can do this – look after the title of the story, it tells you who wrote it. If it’s someone you don’t like, skip to the next update. I probably should write some horrendously fiendish code to do this for people automatically, but I like to be old-fashioned sometimes.

      Are you also tiring of the anti-witchcraft (“witchcraft shuts down school”, anti-global warming (“Much to the chagrin of global warming proponents, CO2 is not polluting the atmosphere at the rate that we generate it”), anti-communist (“North Korea ‘bred spies using former US soldiers'”), anti-Hawass (“Will Zahi Hawass shaft us again?”) etc ad infinitum?

      Sorry, but we don’t assemble the news for particular beliefs. We write them to challenge those beliefs. Not just yours in particular, everyone’s..including our own. If you take offense, at least we’ve got you thinking.

      Peace and Respect

      You monkeys only think you’re running things

      1. Ok guys,
        Let me clarify onc

        Ok guys,
        Let me clarify once again. I do not have a problem with leftists conspiracy theories. Not at all. Infact I find them quite amusing for the most part.

        The reason I’m a little agitated is that after years of coming to this site, I have noticed surging patern of posters leaning to one side quite a bit regularly, almost without fail. The balance of politcal related news is severely lopsided and I think most regulars here would agree on that.

        Greg, the examples you gave are really not examples of American politically charged conservative extremist propaganda, which if it were, might begin to balance this site. Like I stated, the Swift Boat story, the CBS Dan Rather dishonesty and smere campaign story, and even the Chinese funding Kerry stories, all would qualify, but I never see here. Instead all I ever see is anti bush, anti religion, and anti anything remotely considered conservative when it comes to American politics.

        My stance has always been, and still is – If people are going to post American politically charged fanatical theory news stories (which I would perfer they wouldn’t all together) then at least strive a little harder for balance….. That’s all.


        1. Hi Thrustbucket,
          I think wha

          Hi Thrustbucket,
          I think what is actually happening is that the posts you are objecting to are really anti-establishment.
          This site is about attacking the establishment on most issues,from anthropology to zoology.
          It is an alternative site, where people can see an alternative viewpoint, and the viewpoint being attacked is the established one.


          1. Richard…. I don’t recall sa
            Richard…. I don’t recall saying anything about anti-US.

            I realize people that are anti conservative are not anti-US. They are generally just pro- lets make US socialist.


          2. Not pro-socialist either
            I understand and was not necessarily pointing this out for you in particular.

            One thing though. You must realise that there are a lot of people visiting these forums that are not from the States.

            In other countries there is usually a greater plurality of parties and agendas than there is in the US. What I am getting at is that someone could be against the Bush type of policies without having any desire for the US to become a socialist regime.

            Also, not being of a far-right allegiance does not make someone fall on the left.

            This whole debate about Libs and Reps is polarizing the States between black or white. Elsewhere you will find centrists and all the spectrum between the extreme left and the extreme right.

            Just my 2 cents.

          3. Richard
            Good points. And well taken.
            I realize that many visitors to TDG (if not maybe most) are outisde of the US. Actually that’s part of why I have such an adverse reaction to this kind of stuff. I have a lot of friends, and soon to be family, in Europe. I know what much of the worlds perception is of the US, and/or Bush.

            Now I don’t really like Bush or some of his policies either, but I’ve been abroad enough to know the serious serious propaganda machine at work against him, or anything remotely considered conservative in America. The general Joe in many other countries gets a very sickly skewed view of the US and it’s politics by their media, and it’s the fact that I sometimes feel TDG contributes to this is what sets me off.

            Before anyone jumps on my back, I know our own media is not balanced either. All news outlets have an agenda obviously. It’s just that while many blame Bush or our policies directly for the worlds current disfavor with America, I actually blame the foreign media just as much if not more for it as well. For being very extreme and unbalanced in very obvious ways most of the time.


          4. When what feels like insults are coming your way
            Once, a man told me that when someone was trying to insult me, to hurt me by using words, he was in fact doing me a service. Intuitively, he would know about my weaknesses, even if it is hard to put into words. Somebody keen on getting to you will obviously not succeed unless there is a subtle truth hidden there. Strangely, anger and emotions allow your opponents to put your weaknesses into words which, unfortunately, are not always savory in their use.

            In other words, if one were not to allow his emotions to interfere with his mental when being assailed with such words, he would be able to learn more about his weaknesses through that process. We already know, or should know about our strengths so, what is important for us is to know about our weaknesses.

            The consciousness of a country is just what the collective mind of his denizens makes it. For that reason, if we pay heed to words that attack or try to denigrate either a country or his leader, in other words if we take it personal, we become that mass consciousness and we react in place of the psychological profile of that country-entity and we lose our own consciousness in the process (or we lose our individuality if you prefer).

            This of course is a paradox, especially in view of the pressures on the human mind to express itself as an individualistic entity, which would have me say that even though populations may stick to this idea that their individuality is primordial, in reality they have little centricity in their psychic makeup.

            By extension, I would say that as more people gain the authority over their own mind and experience and at the same time proclaim that they don’t belong to a country or any ideology, it will become very difficult to manipulate them and said countries will see their psychologies evaporate to be replaced by a new establishment.

            It is very ironic that we tend to identify to our countries and our leaders, which may bring us to blindly defend them even when they should be trialed and at the same time we believe that we are independent of mind and that nothing has authority over our consciousness, would you not say?

  4. afraid of what may be?
    It sounds to me like your afraid to hear whats out there. Did you even listen to the audio?
    …or your a government disinfo specialist. hehe
    wait im scarred now…

  5. americas
    what on earth is government insider

    it still is that government insider

    i authorized (indirectly) those – and its very indirect – so as i dragged my attention to me and by this also dragging some other ones attention – as his selfcontrol is not my line – who cares.

    ok even if you are insider having some critical knowledge – you would be dead by the time that leaks.

  6. The U.S. Lusitania and Blind Patriotism
    There may not have been a government conspiracy behind 9/11. I do not know. But what I damn well do know is that IF the day should come when some equally sinister conspiracy DOES happen, it will have been pulled off successfully because of the “don’t question authority, they would never do something as sinister as that” atttude some of you posters have here. Personally, I can live with a few conspiracy theorists, if for no other reason than I owe it to my country to do so.


    Read about the attack on the Lusitania, how it was organized by Churchill and Pres. Wilson, and how it saved the US banking system from massive loan defaults by getting us in to WWI. Proven? No. But there is more circumstantial evidence against President Wilson being guilty of this treason than there is against Scott Peterson or O.J. Simpson.

    (Before any of you attack this “ludicrous” idea, read all the evidence first, both sides, instead of launching another knee jerk “I’m more Patriotic than thou” response as too often seen here on TDG)

    Historical precedent counts for a lot when trying to determine what is going on today, and reading about how and why the Lusitania was sunk, which killed 108 innocent Americans, and many hundreds more Europeans, is a big help to understanding why conspiracy theorists may not be as whacko as some of you wish them to be.


    1. Deja vu, all over again
      I know one thing for certain; conspiracy theories sure sell a lot of books, not to mention movies, TV specials and tabloid articles.

      Here’s a pretty balanced site on the Lusitania affair. The conspiracy theory is well discussed. Though not conclusive, by any means (and how will anyone really ever know the truth?), it’s at least entertaining and thought-provoking.

      One thing I discovered is that most of the conspiracy “evidence” hinges on a Lt. Cmdr. Kenworthy, who seems to me a John Kerry-like character, changing stories and attitudes as the political winds blow. He even has the same initials. A short remark from the above site follows.

      “Beyond the direct evidence contradicting the conspiracy thesis is the extremely dubious logic of any such plot, resting as it would on the assumption that the liner and the U-boat could be steered into each other and that the sinking of a British liner would result inevitably in a U.S. declaration of war on Germany. Winston Churchill would have been extremely naive about both the temperament of Woodrow Wilson and the state of U.S. military preparedness to have any such notion. Not only did the United States not come close to war with Germany in the aftermath of the disaster, but it would be difficult even to demonstrate that LUSITANIA set in motion an inexorable slide toward war; U.S. relations with the Allies and the Central Powers did not follow a linear course after May 1915, and in fact in late 1916 Washington’s relations with the Allies were worse than they had been at any time since the start of the war.”

      Absent actual proof, all we have about Lusitania, Roswell, JFK, 9/11, and so many other historical events that are labeled “conspiracies”, is fanciful speculation. While I’m sure there are devilish things that go on in the dark of night, in the secret places of the world, I’ll be from Missouri on most of them, and patriotism, blind or otherwise, has nothing to do with it. Know what? I sleep better because of it. Truth is, even if I didn’t, it wouldn’t help a bit.

      Peace and Regards,

      “The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody’s out to get you. Nobody gives a $hit whether you live or die. There, you feel better now?”
      Dennis Miller

      1. Conspiracy?
        I was at an alternative conference in Sedona a few years ago where one of the UFO types was starting his lecture with a statement where EVERYTHING was either an extraordinary coincidence or a conspiracy. I guess he never heard of ‘$hit happening’. This goes well with Dennis’s statement.

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