News Briefs 07-09-2006

Today's news is all in your head...

Thanks Brian and Kat.

Quote of the Day:

Global warming — at least the modern nightmare vision - is a myth. I am sure of it and so are a growing number of scientists. But what is really worrying is that the world's politicians and policy makers are not.

Professor David Bellamy

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bladerunner's picture
Member since:
1 May 2004
Last activity:
25 weeks 18 hours

I took some time off from doing much posting of comments and such. Not just on TDG, but other sites. I wanted to do a bit of thinking, and making public my thoughts on anything, unless it needed a reply was part of it. Global warming dogma or science. I believe the planet is warming up, but I can't believe we are the only reason. I do believe that it gives us a great oppertunity to look at how we humans use the resources of our planet, and find better ways to get from point A to B. Soil, farming practises, and what horriable things we do to our water supply.And even how many people can the planet support. Though alot of people look at population contol through dogma coloured glasses. This planet has been through changes we can not even begin to understand. And we are not the first creature to dominate its landscape. Nor do I have an ego large enough believe we are the reason for this planet. Or this universe. I have begun to play with the idea that global warming is the scientific communities version of the "end time" nonsense that grips so many religions and cultures. Some are more the end then others. Change is just that, and resistence only make the transision more painful. By being flexable and thoughtful we can get on to what shape this world lends its self next. But that being said the stupid, greedy corporations that like the way things are now will get alot of us killed off before we know if we're warming, freezing , or drying up. So eat some jellie babies, wrap round the scarf, and listen to a little ELO. Because Jeff Lynne is a musical God.

Rick MG's picture
Member since:
2 May 2004
Last activity:
18 hours 37 min

So what if Global Warming is a myth ... at least it's getting people to be more environmentally conscious, forcing companies and nations to clean up their act. I shudder to think how people will behave if GW is conclusively proven to be complete rubbish.

"Global Warming was proven to be complete rubbish," boasts the Fat Multinational Company. "Our pollution-belching factories aren't harming the Ozone layer at all!"

That may be, but their pollution is harming people.

We're focusing too much on the impact of industry and pollution on the Ozone layer, when the focus should be how it affects our health.

And it doesn't take a panel of rocket scientists to work out that pollution isn't good for us.

China, for example, should be cleaning up its act not because their pollution supposedly makes the hole in the Ozone layer bigger and is causing climate change, but because it seriously affects people's health -- the biggest cause of death in China is air-pollution-related respiratory problems. Inevitable respiratory problems are legendary for foreign workers living in China. If all you do is cough up black phlegm, then you're considered lucky.

The Latrobe Valley, where I grew up, has one of the highest incidences of cancer, allergies and respiratory problems in Australia ... and it's no coincidence that the Valley has several coal-fired power stations and paper mills belching out pollution.

So let's say GW is a myth ... should we stop focusing on alternatives to fossil fuels? Is the Kyoto agreement unnecessary?

Global Warming may be a myth ... but the harmful effects of pollution on wildlife and environments are facts no one can deny. And that should be of critical concern to all of us.

Bill's picture
Member since:
30 April 2004
Last activity:
6 years 24 weeks

Rick,

Yes, GW has always been a scam and the Kyoto Accord will not reduce carbon dioxide by one molecule. It is also a dangerous distraction.

You have never grasped the concept that alleged Global Warming only concerns an over-abundance of carbon dioxide in the upper atmosphere. Other types of pollution are separate issues. Yes, we should be using nukes to generate electricity and we should use those nukes to charge batteries to run passenger vehicles.

Other pollution can be controlled with local air-quality standards. There are plenty of reasons to wean ourselves off petroleum without resorting to lies, myths, and meaningless treaties.

And I don't know Professor David Bellamy but he doesn't seem to pull any punches. It's time to kill this mythical GW beast and approach pollution with science and sanity instead of cheesy UN politics. In the words of Red Green, "Hell, this might even work." In my words, don't just let GW die - help kill it. Once this time- and money-consuming mythology is dead, we can then address real problems.

Bill

Xibalba's picture
Member since:
13 May 2004
Last activity:
2 years 17 weeks

...is a thick-bearded UK botanist, who rose to popular fame in the 1970s when he introduced a series of TV programs on nature. Not nearly as cerebral as David Attenborough, his lisp and funny accent made him a natural TV celebrity.

There was a live debate on global warming on the UK's Channel 4 News a couple of months ago between David Bellamy, who advocated the non-existence of global warming, and George Monbiot who fought the pro-global warming corner.

It was the funniest thing I've ever seen. George Monbiot totally bitch-slapped David Bellamy's arse on live TV, and left him lost for words when he was unable to counter the barrage of actual science used against Bellamy's hearsay.

I've become a big fan of George Monbiot from that day, and he provides public comment on a variety of global issues. Likewise, I've become particularly sceptical on David Bellamy's unscientifically-based arguments against the global warming issue.

yer ol' pal,

Xibalba
(This post was brought to you by "Realm of the Dead")

Bill's picture
Member since:
30 April 2004
Last activity:
6 years 24 weeks

Now that's hard to envision - bitch-slapping someone with the junk science of global warming. But I'll play your straight-man if you care to demonstrate. Here's your set-up:

Greenland ice core records clearly show that a temperature rise is followed by an increase in CO2 levels. This demonstrates that an increase of CO2 in the atmosphere may result from an increase in temperature but it certainly cannot be the cause.

Your turn. Waiting for bitch slap.

Bill

alevangel's picture
Member since:
1 May 2004
Last activity:
1 year 13 weeks

There's a frightening lot of $$$ and careers invested in supporting GW, so I don't imagine its passing as a quiet one.

However, in order to believe that mankind is responsibile for GW, somebody's also got to explain how people generated the last ice age 10,000 years ago (i.e., pre SUV), the Little Ice Age (uh...seems to be associated with Maunder Minimum solar cycles), and the current melting of the Martian ice caps (arguably outside of the reach of earth's atmosphere).

Yes, the idea that GW is the intellectual version of The Sky Is Falling is a wonderful allusion. My own take is that we (humankind, especially of the First World variety), are separated from nature by our social and physical architechture. Consequently, we are utterly ignorant of the REAL natural world (hey, if the supermarkets closed today, how would you get a meal on the table?). With First World arrogance, we also presume we can control nature -- and that, therefore, whatever happens in nature is the result of our control.

Beneath that, a secret atavistic fear lingers -- just as the "primitive" fears "the flood came because our people are morally corrupt", we fear, too. The climate heats up, and it must be because we are corrupt (i.e., we've got SUVs and use fossil fuels and raise methane-producing cattle, depriving everybody in the Third World from "their fair share" -- or whatever).

Guilt and Fear and Hubris -- whatta combo.

alevangel

Bill's picture
Member since:
30 April 2004
Last activity:
6 years 24 weeks

Hi Alevangel,

Your observations are accurate and your comments are astute. Global Warming has become a new religion for many, complete with lots of guilt, reconciliation, and the self-righteous indignation of the "saved". We have sinned against Mother Earth and we must be punished. Damn the heretics and those that say hogwash, don't confuse us with facts - science is the enemy, we have faith! Of course, the new priests are not about to give up all that grant money easily and the Greenpeace-choir will sing whatever bogus-alarmist hymn you want as long as you send more money.

Meanwhile, we continue to poison the oceans with more fertilizer because after all, what does fertilizer have to do with Global Warming?

It's so sad because we could be doing something beneficial with all this effort and money. The articles posted on TDG of late state that we're hard-wired for religion. IMO, they are right but why did we pick such garbage.

Bill

amadeusrex's picture
Member since:
7 June 2006
Last activity:
6 years 12 weeks

I've read all these comments and the article, and it all re-enforces what I've thought for a long time - Human Casused Global Warming is a MYTH. Is the climate getting warmer? The evidence from climatologists says yes. But, if you look at those same climatologists historical climate data (reconstructed from ice cores, tree ring evidence, and the like) you'll see that the meen global temp nowadays is lower than the scientifically determined meen temp from the middle ages. In other words, its was hotter 600 yrs ago than now. It is a normal climate cycle, caused by the sun. It is pure arrogance to say that we humans can totally affect the climate so drastically as some are claiming (yes, I mean you Algore). Proponents of GW claim that we done so much damage that it is irreversable. We are so powerful as to deal a death blow to the Earth, but so powerless as to not be able to do anything about it? Just a quick fact - the Krakatowa eruption dumped as much "greenhouse gasses" into the air as 100 yrs of the internal combustion engine. And how many volcanic eruptions have happened throughout history? Santorini, Vesuvius, the entire Pacific Rim, ect. ect... If the global eco-system did not have a way to deal with these suppossed "harmful gasses" then we would have been toast long ago. And how about the claim that last years hurricane season was so severe due to global warming? If that's the case, why has this year been so much quieter? I know, Bush turned the hurricane creating machine off to lure people into a sense of saftey and get more minorities back to New Orleans so as to set them up for next year, right? Yeah, crazy Louis needs to go back to the Mother Ship.
Rick - you said it right, all this polution is not harming the Earth - it's harming us. And I'm not talking about plastic in landfils, I'm talking about nearly toxic smog in places like LA, a haven for wakko enviromentalists, explain that one (I geuss they should prctice what they preach and trade in the SUV for a pair of walking shoes). Taking care of the enviroment should not focus on GW, it should focus on keeping us healthy. In that vein, here are a few suggestions. Let lumber companies go into forests and thin out the dead and dying trees and keep the vegitation cleared so that we don't have 1000 acre kindling piles. I know that it is the way of Nature to burn this off occasionally, but we accomplish the same end result by caring for the forests, and there is none of that nasty smoke in the air or the threat to human lives. Maybe that was the intent, we care for Nature so Nature no longer has to do most of the work? Another idea, stop trying to tell farmers, ranchers, hunters, and fishermen how to deal with their enviroments. Let them do what they need to do to keep their surroundings safe and clean. Most hunters and fishermen are better (and more sensible) conservationists than the majority of the enviromentalists and goverment flunkies trying to tell them they are wrong. And farmers and ranchers know how to take care of the land better than anyone writing land use regulations and guidelines. I meen, come on, these people depend upon the land for their greatest joy or livelyhood, in some cases, both. Who came up with the idea to pay farmers to NOT use part of their land. First of all, if it's the best idea to keep the farm producing good in the long run, they'll do it. Second of all, farmers know how to keep farm land from becoming useless and dead. And thirdly, even with doing that, we still produce grain surpluses that set around. We should be able to feed the entire planet on good healthy food if the the goverment and the lobbies (including the enviromrntalists) would just get out of the way. Well I've ranted on for awhile so I'll wrap this up. "Global Warming" is just the natural cycle the Earth goes through. And as for the plastic, I like what George Carlin had to say on that. Maybe the Earth wanted plastic, couldn't make it herself, so created Humans to make it for her. Now that she has it, she'll shrug us off and incorporate it into a new paridime - The Earth + Plastic.

Amadeus_rex

FORTE EST VINUM, FORTIOR EST REX, FORTIORES SUNT MULIERES: SUPER OMNIA VINCIT VERITAS.
"Wine is strong, a King is stronger, women are stronger still: but truth conquers all"

Bill's picture
Member since:
30 April 2004
Last activity:
6 years 24 weeks

Hi Amadeus_rex,

Your conclusions are good, common sense reactions to the problem. My prediction is that you will never be elected to anything because you didn't support the non-crisis and you didn't attempt to inspire panic and hysteria. At least you recognize the George Bush manipulates the hurricane-creation machine to the detriment of minorities.

BTW, I don't know if the temperature of the earth is increasing or not. Temp-monitoring stations that were once in rural areas are now located in urban development making comparisons difficult. The coastlines of Antarctica are getting warmer where they discovered eleven submerged volcanoes two years ago, but the interior is getting colder. Go figure. The north pole melts every year and some panic about it every year and show pictures of it in the winter and call this science. I also know that the temperature of the troposphere is slightly decreasing eliminating the possibility of a runaway greenhouse effect. Ask John Christy, a real scientist and climatologist.

I also know that many people that are absolutely convinced that man is responsible for global warming have no idea why I wrote the previous paragraph or what it means or how it relates to anything. But at least you and several others do.

Bill

Richard's picture
Member since:
1 May 2004
Last activity:
11 weeks 2 days

Regardless of responsibility, the permafrost is melting here up North.

I guess it was not that 'perma'nent so it may end up being some misnomer as they say.

That is a fact though as it is pretty obvious to anyone with eyes to see.

Is it solely related to human activities? I would not believe so. Are human activities totally irrelevant? It may just have been the drop that toppled the balance.

earthling's picture
Member since:
22 November 2004
Last activity:
18 hours 11 min

We have to deal with the consequences, no matter what (or who) is responsible. Of course that is a trivial statement, but the number of people who don't want to think that far is staggering.

Regardless, we are left with some mixture of 2 options:

1 - We accept the climate changes as inevitable, or too big to counteract. So we build dams in the lowlands, move cities to the foothills, resettle polar bears to the south pole. Some will fight for the fresh water, others will drown in it. Some people will pay a high price, others will benefit by pure luck.

2 - We believe that the controlling factor has been human activity, AND we believe that we can counteract it. Then we try to engineer out economies, industries, agriculture to control what we messed up in the past. Or, we try slowing them down to emission levels of, say, 1625, and hope that this works. Again some people will pay a high price, others will benefit by pure luck.

3 - Pray. Yes I said 2 options. Some people will just pray. It won't hurt if that is mixed in with options 1 and 2.

Bill's picture
Member since:
30 April 2004
Last activity:
6 years 24 weeks

We have no idea if the overall net iffect on the planet is warmer, colder, wetter, drier, or none of the above. These so-called GW-scientists have been lieing to keep the grant-money coming. Fire them all, cut-off the grants, and stomp their eggs. Find out what's really going on.

Your options:

1) Tides ebb and flow worldwide, up a little here, down a little there. AFAIK, the overall rise of sea level is zero. However, if it has changed where you are and you expect it to continue, buy land in-land and move.

2) The genie is out of the bottle. We will never reduce emissions to the levels of 1625. There's no reason to do so anyway.

3) Prayer is optional and may differ by location. Richard might prefer that patch of green over the permafrost. I know my friends in Alaska pray for warmer ground temperature.

Bill

Bill's picture
Member since:
30 April 2004
Last activity:
6 years 24 weeks

I would celebrate, plant some winter rye, and put a few head of cattle on it. If it stays that way, you win.

Bill

X_O's picture
Member since:
1 May 2004
Last activity:
1 year 3 weeks

Hi Richard,

I had the rare privilege to visit my ancestors' digs at Lance-aux Meadows a few weeks ago. For those that may not know, that is the one well documented site where the Vikings lived on the North American continent. Low and behold, they describe how the settlement is about one meter (or more) above its original sea level. (Their ships were easily brought to their repair station which is now quite a distance from the small inlet.)

Well, they actually explained that the climate was substantially warmer 1000 yrs. ago (perhaps 3 degrees!) and, of course, Newfoundland is still rising from the relief of the ice cover lost after the last ice age.

I'm surprized the friendly folks there aren't getting 're-educated' in some camp by the GW crowd. :-)

Cheers,

Xavier Onassis