The Future!? How Do We Solve The Problems, And Move Forward?

I want us to have a practical discussion about the future in terms of what can be done to creat a better future. What are the problems, not the outward manifestations of the problems; but, what are the problems themselves? What, from a practical perspective, can be done to solve the real problems? In my opinion, the problems require practical solutions, not idiological, and/or philosophical solutions! Furthermore, in my opinion, real problems need well thoughtout practical solutions, not fly by night solutions based on principles! But, I do not wish to limit the discussion in any way. So, I will include my own thoughts, and opinions a few at a time in my responses.

What do you think?

Cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think, Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!}

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Enigmni Freak's picture
Member since:
20 March 2006
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8 weeks 6 days

Born yesterday??? see below

By the by, You can do it all if you apply your total self!

cnnek's picture
Member since:
28 June 2006
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2 days 10 hours

Enigmni,

I want a discussion about the future, not the past, and how we got here. Forget the blame game in this discussion! The question before us here is, "what are we going to do about it?"

And, in my opinion, your comment was somewhat less than constructive. But, the below can serve as a good background for this discussion.

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

earthling's picture
Member since:
22 November 2004
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2 weeks 15 hours

My guess is that we have to do everything at the same time.

While that sounds perhaps scary and probably silly, consider what we have to work with.

We have more than 6.5 billion people. Most of them can think to some reasonable extent. So we can divide up the challenges. Some of the challenges are just work. Others need innovation, based on what we already know. And we have people left over for the revolutionary ideas too, there are so many educated people now. Sure most revolutionary ideas are nonsense, but a few of them work.

So the answer today is that we don't know, and we don't really know what direction to search in. But we have massive capabilities to look for solutions, in many directions.

We will find things we never dreamed of.

----
It is not how fast you go
it is when you get there.

cnnek's picture
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28 June 2006
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Earthling,

Unlike the presumption of Liberal Arts that the world is a segregated reality, the world is a highly integrated reality, and we need an integrated solution. So, across the board coordination will be essential. Furthermore, the solution must be well thought out, and constructive interum measures must be considered also.

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

red pill junkie's picture
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12 April 2007
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Well, I think one of the main things we should focus our efforts is PROPERLY educating the younger generations. Not so that they will be able to somehow figure out the solution to all the messy problems we're gonna leave behind; but to effectively cut off the generational cycles of hate and grudges that undermine all the noble endeavors to make this planet a better place.

When there's ancient resentments over some stupid quarrel or the other, there can be no chance to moving forward. In order to move into the future, we have to leave the past behind.

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

cnnek's picture
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Red Pill,

A good part of the reason for this mess is that people have not been educated to think and see reality as an integrated reality in which everything effects everything else directly, and/or indirectly. This mess could have been anticipated, and many of the problems could have been solved before they happened, maybe all of them. To put it another way, nobody ever had to know that this mess was possible. But, the elimination of prejudice, and hatred are essential, and this should be done, not only through the educational process, but also, in every other aspect of daily life! It is, however, only one important part of the education that future generations are going to need.

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

Carol_Noble's picture
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3 June 2008
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Personally I find it difficult not to blame someone, most of the time, and often this can be myself.

But my boss tries to curry a "no blame culture" and how he manages this is by keeping very calm, not raising his voice, accepting that mistakes happen and trying to do something to move things forward. I admire him for that, especially as I have been making more mistakes as I have got older and my health is deteriorating, but that is by the by.

As a child, my father replicated the attitude of the day; he was a loud mouthed stubborn harsh disciplinarian and he would regularly hit me to show I had done somthing wrong, but did not always explain why.

He also took offense quite easily and held grudges for quite a long time. Once my father and I didn't speak to one another for 3 years, but I digress.

At the time people did have an emotional attitude towards life, and discipline, and the competitive instinct was strong often resulting in harsh disputes as feeling ran high. But it also encouraged independence, sustained working, endurance, competitiveness, and also, believe it or not, a desire to help your fellow man/woman when they were in trouble.

Today, whilst there is a lot of violence on tv/films/computer games there is less interest in caring about others, and war is also despised. I put this down to partly taking away a lot of the emotional content of rhetoric and activities and trying to turn us into "robots" who only do as the authorities tell us even if it means going to our deaths unnecessarily. The other part is I believe the food we are given, and the lack of good nutrition to keep our bodies fit and healthy which leaves us lethargic, sometimes almost zombie like, and doing whatever we are told just to survive.

A "no blame culture" can lead to progress but it also can bring about something that is nothing like what was envisaged, and possibly not what people need.

Carol A Noble

Enigmni Freak's picture
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After reading the above it seems Carol wants us to all become girls. But is that a trek toward learning to lie rather than fight for what we believe. This may not be possible to awaken to a new world. I can see that world of goodness, but I do not know how to get there.

red pill junkie's picture
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What Carol describes is a very rational and positive attitude.

In my line of work—Architecture, Interior Design— you often face many problems being the result of someone screwing up and not following the plans. When dealing with those problems, you have two choices: either waste all your time and energy finding the culprit and blaming him —which BTW is my employer's favorite attitude— or you can choose to focusing on FIXING the problem, so anyone can resume work and things can move forward again.

I think most of humanity wastes too much energy on finding who are the ones who have wronged them, who's to blame for heir predicament: the Europeans, the Muslims, the Jews, the Latin Americans, the Whites, the Blacks, the Reds, the Greens, everyone is blaming everyone else.

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

cnnek's picture
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Red Pill,

Step one should always be to solve the problem. But, finding the reason that the problem occured is also important in order to prevent future problems. There may be systemic reasons for people screwing up. Furthermore, a good part of the reason for this mess we have today is people who didn't think that the rules applied to them. We need one set of rules that apply to everyone regardless of who they think that they are.

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

cnnek's picture
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Freak,

It's not a bad idea. But, in order to facilitate population growth, we need men also. Maybe your doctor can explain this to you!:)

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

cnnek's picture
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Carol,

My father was like your father, and the cultural situation was similar. So, I understand what you mean in that part of your post. But, people also took personal responsibility for their actions then, not now!

I think that one big problem is that the ideas of freedom, and personal responsibility have been divorced from each other. Freedom requires personal responsibility. If you tell this to most people today, they look at you as if you are crazy. And, this divorce between freedom, and personal responsibility, in my opinion, facilitates the blame game. People don't want to take responsibility for their mistakes. So, they try to blame them on someone else! When, in fact, there is enough blame to go around.

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

Mr J's picture
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The issue we have here is that there is no hard, definite, indisputable evidence to explain what the problems are that we, as a species, face.

Of course we have the big ones; global warming, pollution, terrorism, the current financial crisis but how many of the causes to those do we as a race, agree on?

Pollution is fairly straight forward; we live in an ultra-consuming, disposable society that produces more waste than it knows what to do with, that winds up being dumped, buried or burned, which causes problems for our health and survival.

But what of the others?

Terrorism: This is evil and wrong, but is not new and has been around for centuries. When I was a kid, the term terrorist meant IRA, yet now its meaning seems to have been changed to indicate solely Islamic Extremists. We are being told by the government that all the new monitoring devices and privacy intrusion laws that have been put in place are there for our own protection against terrorist threats, yet there is evidence to suggest that the biggest 'terrorist threat' Al Qu'eda, doesn't actually exist as a solid group as was simply a name given to a perceived threat. So who is the enemy? Should we be thankful for the new protective measures and accept the loss of privacy, or be outraged at the intrusion into our lives?

Define terrorism. An act of violence or intimidation for political or religious ends that causes terror within society, would be a fairly good description and accurately describes people who bomb public places to send a message. But doesn't the notion that we are monitored almost every second of every day also cause intimidation? Isn't the suggestion that if you don't 'look right' at an airport you can be detained as a possible terrorist and subjected to demeaning and physically intrusive searches, absolutely terrifying? Isn't being reminded of the colour of the imagined 'threat level' also a means of keeping people scared?

So, whose to blame for the fear?

The financial crisis: who's to blame? The bankers, obviously. Yet much of society, me included, were happy to take the money being thrown our way, despite the extortionate interest rates. Maybe the banks shouldn't have given us the money if we couldn't afford to pay it back, but we still took it. We can't, in all good conscience, place the blame solely on the bankers and stock market traders, when we happily reaped some of the benefits and spent money we didn't have.

Global Warming: The planet's heating up, weather's changing, glaciers are melting, but why? It's obviously the fault of the human race, whose lust for industry and machines has pumped the air full of carbon dioxide. Everyone with a car, house or life creates a carbon footprint (a term I despise with my entire being), so we are obviously to blame for rising global temperatures. But what of deforestation by logging companies, building on green areas, loss of rainforests? Surely, if humanity is to blame for the rising CO2 levels, these must be taken into consideration. But no, it's me and my car, it's him and his central heating. If we are the cause of increasing CO2 levels then ensuring everyone decreases their CO2 levels does nothing if the means by which CO2 is transformed into oxygen continues to be stripped away. That equates to taking up exercise as a means of staying fit and healthy, yet continuing to smoke.

And, what if we aren't to blame. What if the other side of the argument is correct, that the change in climate is a naturally occuring process that we are powerless to stop? What then? There are certainly a vast amount of articles citing scientific evidence that our existence on the planet amounts to little more than ants at a picnic.

In fact, the reports we keep being shown and the figures that are constantly thrown at us about the state of the Earth and how we are to blame would, to some, appear as scare tactics, to frighten us into action and guilt us into submission. Could this not be described as a form of terrorism?

These are only a handful of the problems that we face as a global society and I use them solely to illustrate my point:

The problem, as I perceive it, is not one of simply naming problems and fixing them; the problems themselves need fixing before they themselves can be fixed.

red pill junkie's picture
Member since:
12 April 2007
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I think what you are describing are only the modern end results of the main problems humanity has carried since the dawn of time.

Financial crisis, global warming, terrorism, all that are symptoms of two aspects of the human nature: Greed & Violence. And I think those two stem from a lack of compassion, an incapacity to feel empathy to other people's problems and caring mainly about ME ME ME.

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

fahim knight's picture
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22 December 2007
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I agree with Mr. J; but Cnnek we need these type discussions and I do not think we should define the scope and measure of the conversation; all truth is relative. Most Americans do not even know there is a problem and it is going to take various view points, which to hopefully bring us to a collective understanding. But this a welcoming conversation.

Stay Awake Until Meet Again,
Fahim A. Knight-EL

Enigmni Freak's picture
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From: Secret Teachings of All Ages -- Manly P. Hall — “Universal and deep thought bestows amplified spirit in that it reveals the dignity and purpose of living. Materiality bestows death in that it benumbs or clouds those faculties of human soul, which should be responsive to the enlivening impulses of creative thought and ennobling virtue. How inferior to these standards of remote days are the laws by which men live in the twentieth century! Today man a sublime creature with infinite capacity for self-improvement, in an effort to be true to false standards, turns from his birthright of understanding--without realizing the consequences--and plunges into the maelstrom of material illusion. The precious span of his earthly years he devotes to the pathetically futile effort to establish himself as an enduring power in a realm of unenduring things. Gradually the memory of his life as a spiritual being vanishes from his objective mind and he focuses all his partly awakened faculties upon the seething beehive of industry which he has come to consider the sole actuality. From the lofty heights of of his Selfhood he slowly sinks into the gloomy depths of ephemerality. He falls to the level of the beast, and in brutish fashion mumbles the problems arising from his all too insufficient knowledge of the Divine Plan. Here in the lurid turmoil of a great industrial, political, commercial inferno, men writhe in self-inflicted agony and, reaching out into the swirling mists, strive to clutch and hold the grotesque phantoms of success and power.

Ignorant of the cause of life, ignorant of the purpose of life, ignorant of what lies beyond the mystery of death, yet possessing within himself the answer to it all, man is willing to sacrifice the beautiful, the true, and the good within and without upon the blood stained altar of worldly ambition. The world of philosophy -- that beautiful garden of thought wherein the sages dwell in the bond of fraternity--fades from view. In its place rises an empire of stone, steel, smoke, and hate--a world in which millions of creatures potentially human scurry to and fro in the desperate effort to exist and at the same time maintain the vast institution which they have erected and which, like some mighty juggernaut, is rumbling inevitably towards an unknown end. In this physical empire, which man erects in the vain belief that he can outshine the kingdom of the celestials, everything is changed to stone, Fascinated by the glitter of gain, man gazes at the Medusa-like face of greed and stands petrified.

War -- the irrefutable evidence of irrationality--still smolders in the hearts of men; it cannot die until human selfishness is overcome. Armed with multifarious inventions and destructive agencies, civilization will continue its fratricidal strife through future ages. But upon the mind of man there is dawning a great fear--that eventually civilization will destroy itself in one great cataclysmic struggle. Then must be reenacted the eternal drama of reconstruction. Out of the ruins of the civilization, which died when its idealism died, some primitive people yet in the womb of destiny must build a new world. Foreseeing the needs of that day, the philosophers of the ages have desired that into the structure of this new world shall be incorporated the truest and finest of all that has gone before. It is a divine law that the sum of previous accomplishment shall be the foundation of each new order of things. The great philosophic treasures of humanity must be preserved. That which is superficial may be allowed to perish; that which is fundamental and essential must remain, regardless of consequences “

Enigmni Freak's picture
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20 March 2006
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There is a secret that mankind overlooks. History teaches us much and we should look back and think of who and what we are in relation to the process of actually being here. We are here to become.

http://www.enigmni.com/Roc-SecClosHeldpg...

bladerunner's picture
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1 May 2004
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42 weeks 3 days

Light up. Sit in my back yard and watch the wild world for an hour , while eating a pint of chocolate ice cream. Repeat when needed.

Enigmni Freak's picture
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20 March 2006
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If anyone is hurting kids with drugs (selling or supporting) I am against lighting up. No child should be subjected to drugs.

bladerunner's picture
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But no children were injured in the lighting up of stuff. I don't have any. You might want to do a bit more reading up about drug use on a site called the Daily Grail! I'm better off with a puff or two in the evening, then flat drunk and broke with a quart of rum(at least) everyday. Yes a quart every day, its a wonder I'm alive, or didn't off someone else( been sober 8 years). And oddly enough the damn stuff is legal! And I won't even start on the drugs my doctors has prescribed over the years. Happy Daze!

AncientSkyMan's picture
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1 May 2004
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Nice topic Cnnek, I'd like to throw in my two cents:

First we need to curtail our population. If there were only one billion people on this planet, then it would be sustainable to let everyone have hot and cold (clean) running water, washers, dryers, TV sets, transportation, yada yada yada. Because there are too many of us we have wars for resources, territory, ideology etc. etc. etc. So to get on the right track, we need ZPG (zero population growth) right now, and we need reductions of 70% over the next three generations. . I know, I won't hold my breath.

Then, we need to STOP spending huge % of our GDP on weapons and war and use ALL of that money to put humanity into space permanently. Self-sustaining colonies on other worlds is a sure-fire way to expand not only our physical reach, but also our consciousness. Every astronaut that has returned after seeing the Earth from Space has reported that it was a transformative experience. I'm all for large numbers of folks having this experience and sharing the gifts of their transformation among the people.

Our Past, Our Future: To Infinity and Beyond!!!!

AncientSkyman

red pill junkie's picture
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12 April 2007
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When I was younger I too advocated for a ZPG (zero population growth as a fundamental requirement for fixing our world.

But as I grew older I came to realize that would bring many new problems before it begins to solve old ones. If you reduce birth to zero percent, you end up with a very dangerous generational gap, where there will be more people close to retirement than people ready to replace them in the work force. Who's gonna pay for all those senior citizen's pensions and health care?

Sure, we could rely on robots, like Japanese are betting on, but I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket yet. Drastically reducing births might create an imbalance ripe for a 'Logan's Run' kind of society, IMO.

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

fahim knight's picture
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22 December 2007
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There is enough world resources to solve humanity's needs and I do not favor depopulation (we have seen these options in the past) because I am looking at it from a divine and spiritual basis; creation is of no burdensome nor strain on the earth nor the universe, as long as we obey the established universal order of things and place ourselves in harmony wit the macrocosm universe. This is something that we have not done. The first law of the universe is order and second law is motion; everything functions within sphere. Thus, after our various conversations last week relative to my post titled, "Two Nations" I realize that one of the biggest problem humanity was having is cultural ignorance and this drives division and creates phobias and fears that is fed by learned prejudices. So after giving it some thought, I tackled the topic on my latest blog titled, "Culture and Humanity: Learned Behavior the Basis of Human Conflict". I believe the posting of this particular blog was also a direct result of our last week conversation and there were a couple more blogs that others posted that somewhat spoke to this same area of human imperfection. Lastly, the Power Elite has monopolized 95% of the world's wealth amongst 300 families. Lets try redistributed the world’s wealth and resources and grant all those Developing Nations Debt amnesty from the oppression of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund as a start. These are some practical things we can do, but everybody knows what truly serve as an artificial barrier to humanity's progress is greed; it always keeps us peasants looking up.

Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,
Fahim A. Knight-EL

MPajak's picture
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31 October 2008
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I agree with Red Pill Junkie on the two main factors contributing to our problems today. Red Pill said Greed and Violence. I would have said Greed and Fear. We need to reign in these two things or we will never solve our problems. I believe we need a re-education of our adults and our children. As Fahim Knight wrote on his blog about us being culturally indoctrinated into certain ways of thinking, we really need to look at that.

First, what are we teaching our kids and each other? We are so disconnected from each other as people and that is mainly because of fear. We are fed news stories every day about how this stranger (fill in crime here) did this to another person or family or child. So we have learned to fear not only people different from us but everyone including our neighbor. That is just sad and it will keep us from ever joining together to work on the world's problems. Our stories, movies, video games, and news media all propagate fear in our society. I think we need to look at what we are exposing ourselves and our kids to. And I'm OK with freedom of expression so don't think I want to censor anyone. I don't. I'd like it to be cool to help each other. I'd like to not have so much fear in this world. Will that ever happen?

Second, we need to take a long look at greed and the role it plays in our society. Who do we look up to in our society? Who are our heroes? Those who make the most money? Is that really what we want to hold up and admire? Our banks were so greedy, they've plunged us into financial disaster. Corporate America is running us into the ground with their unbridled greed. How do we stop that? Can we stop that? How do we do that on a grass roots level? How do we change that culturally? So it's not the guy with the biggest house and the most toys who wins?

I don't know. Quite honestly, how do you stop greed? My only suggestion is to expose it for what it is and how it hurts people when it goes too far. A little greed is necessary for each of us to survive. Could we make it a cultural achievement to want to be a good human being and treat each other and our earth well? That may sound very 1960s-ish but we need to get back to who we really are and lose the greed and the fear. Let's get back to hope.

Maybe it needs to start with teaching balance in all things. Maybe we need an education in how to be a global citizen?

What do you think?

MPajak

red pill junkie's picture
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MPajak,I think you're completely right that Fear may very well be the prime factor to solve in this world. Not only does it triggers violence, but I might be inclined to believe it's ALSO the origin of greed too! When you fear death, hunger, or have low self-esteem, that's when you start to covet.

So how do we solve this? It will need many approaches. From almost trivial things, like ensuring our children are breast-fed more —don't laugh, yesterday I linked a news of a study that seems to point out a correlation between the incidence of breast-feeding and the behavior of children later in life— to other more radical measures.

We need to learn to enjoy the things that need not be bought, while at the same time helping the people at the lower levels of society's pyramid have access to the basic satisfactors most of us take for granted: water, food and medicines, etc.

Of course, right now concepts like "share the wealth" are considered obscene language among certain circles ;-)

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

MPajak's picture
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31 October 2008
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2 years 48 weeks

Yes, I think you are right Red Pill Junkie. Fear drives greed so it's really fear we are looking at.

I went to Comic-Con this summer in San Diego and heard Deepak Chopra speaking with Grant Morrison about mythology and fear vs. hope. One point they were discussing was how they wanted to take responsibility for the comic books they are sponsoring and/or writing. (Yes, Deepak Chopra is helping with a comic book about Buddha's life.) They want to bring more hope into the world rather than fear. They are using comic books and stories to do this. I think our society depends heavily on stories (comic books, video game stories, fictional books, and of course, movies)and people are heavily influenced by these stories. Chopra and Morrison are taking the approach of teaching via this media and I think that is a start. After all, these are the myths of today's society. Let's focus them and set some intentions for what we want to have come about.

What do you think?

MPajak

MPajak's picture
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I forgot to mention that I do not laugh at the mention of breast feeding. I was watching the Science Channel the other day and saw a story about pigs. They did studies on these pigs and whether they acted in fear or confidence based upon how soon they were forced to stop suckling. Those who were weaned after only 2 weeks, acted with fear and could not remember things. Those who were naturally weaned (after 8 or 10 weeks) acted with confidence and remembered things. Very interesting study. I think this gets back to just being the regular human beings that we are--au natural!

Many people have a problem with the "share the wealth" idea and I think it all comes back to fear. We are all afraid there won't be enough for me and mine. I like to look at little kids for this type of problem and figure out how they handle sharing. Maybe we need to think like a five-year-old. You know sometimes things become much clearer when you do.

MPajak

Enigmni Freak's picture
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20 March 2006
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Lose your body, and enter motion. Assemble with logic and REASON. You will see your creation in the twinkling of an eye. This is a soulular assemblage.

——————————————————————————

Soulular Travel is the physical leveraging of Time/Space for the benefit of knowledge and wisdom to the spiritual soul, the eternal monad. It can only be accomplished by the higher being existing within and throughout the realm of perceived existences. That higher being is ever changeless yet outwardly changing and monadically multifaceted in expression. It has been said that it is almost holographic in its emulation, what some refer to as holo-spirited. Mankind is the progeny of this multifaceted generator or God. His means will be experienced here.

———————————————————————————

Learners, I am going to insert you into this program for extracting incremental worth of the Monadic Soul. It is a program not unlike a simulation utilizing holographic virtual elements. It will appear as real as existence can possibly be yet it is a device for learning. For each of you it will initially seem strange because you will experience event sequences via a framework or vehicle that will exist within the Zeta program only. Its parameters are set to various conditions and means of solving vehicular problems within that environment. It is not unlike what you have here in this realm but you will be able to be subjected to existences that you never imagined before and you will not recognize yourself in that realm. It is indeed a very advanced RPG or Role Playing Game.

What is great about this experiment is that you are at present highly advanced in all that you know which seems like everything. But, when you enter this realm, you will be highly unfamiliar with the apparatus of motivation. There will be much learning that will be somewhat frustrating in the beginning. You will be highly clumsy and make many mistakes. There are others of us already in the program that will help you move through all the timely challenges. You will grow to admire many of those who are already moving up the chain of the gambital learning site. Their expertise in this highly challenging environ will aid you in your periodic movement through the various tests.

The program is written to allow you to grow in knowledge and it is the very same for everyone who is in the virtual realm. It rewards and punishes you vehicularly by taking away certain aspects of power and leveraging for movement in the realm. The program is highly robust with the laws of consequence and if one makes too many mistakes you will have need to opt out of the program and start over.

Your vehicle will have an onboard computer that must record every aspect of every event that takes place in this world or realm. It is like a server that keeps everything headed in the right direction automatically. You will have some leeway for creative efforts in the realm but pretty much the program has you by the lifeline when it come to working the challenges that will fly at you from the beginning.

The controls you have for movement in this realm are hair trigger and extremely deft. Of course you are highly advanced as a thinker, and extremely creative, but in the early stages it is mostly learning how to leverage the projected challenges to just sustaining some kind of composure that allows life in this environ. You may find it hard to stand and deliver.

Your other facets of being will join you and become players in the gambit. Some will be ahead and others behind but time will seem the same for all of you. You will play this game through to the end though you will be able to slip out when the vehicle itself crashes on a cyclic basis. When this happens you will return here for a debriefing and briefing with your colleagues where you will try to work out the next sequences of events in this realm and perhaps revisit the same gambit from a different perspective.

I must warn you. In the early stages of this simulated vehicular role playing, you will remember your advanced stages of being here in Timelessness, but as you learn the physical apparatus you will suffer immersion with the vehicle and begin to buy into the gambit. Unless you meditate and seek to maintain your present knowledge of the Eternal Monadic Realm, you will lose all contact with us. I know it seems strange being as intelligent as you are, but the program is good.

Of course, this event of being in the program is almost instantaneous for us, it will seem to you as a lifetime, because everything is on a different sequence coupled to events that are fired at you as potential to leverage.

The Information Float creates this realm of mind moved to its own configuration. The Universe is Holographic in a way but still more complex.

earthling's picture
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No I don't mean Obama :)

I mean the one really big change we are facing now.

There actually is enough for every person on earth. Enough food, enough housing, all the basic stuff. This happened sometime in the last 30 years or so. Yes, sadly not everyone got enough food, water, housing, and protection from being shot at. But there is enough, for the first time in more than a million years.

This is confusing - for the first time in human and animal history, we have enough. And if we can be smart about it, we can keep this up forever.

The problem is that all our social systems are designed to deal with not having enough.

----
It is not how fast you go
it is when you get there.

cnnek's picture
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Earthling,

You are absolutely correct. But, unfortunately, not having enough is defined by far too many people as not having enough of an excess. And, as such, far too much is in the hands of far too few people. Too much greed, in my opinion, is one of the prime motivaters behind peoples desire for power; because, if you have power over people, then you can increase your own excess. On the other hand, a little greed is what makes us want to get up in the morning, and go to work, so that, we can provide for ourselves, and our families. A little greed also makes us want to improve the world in which we live. So, in terms of greed, I think that we need to be talking about extreme moderation of greed.

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

Delaiah's picture
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I must caution against conflating greed and power lust. While they may seem superficially similar, they are actually two different things. The worst among us do not seek power to gain wealth, but to control others and use them as playthings. You will find this behavior in situations where no wealth is at stake. Some examples include prison, among the homeless, and interaction with abusive police or bureaucrats.

Greed can produce a Wall Street meltdown or outsource your job to the other side of the world. Greed can con you out of your money or steal your car. It can even kill you for them.

Power lust on the other hand has as its goal your enslavement or death. Witness Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. Look at the North Korea of Kim Il Sung. Here is a state where everything has been collectivized under the control of one man who has been exempted from all control and criticism. This is the fatal flaw of socialism - someone must decide. The result: people who are slaves or akin to robots, owned mind, body, and soul.

I fear that this condition is inherent within some people. We must acknowledge it and seek to prevent circumstances where this power may be obtained and create mechanisms to defeat such monsters. This was the goal of the U.S. Constitution. Clearly, we need to reinforce and expand this idea and defend our individual rights as men and women.

earthling's picture
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Some people say that power lust comes from fear.

Napoleon, Stalin and Hitler were all short guys. Elisabeth #1 of England was, apparently, very ugly. All those people had power lust.

But then again Mao was tall, relatively speaking.

And you make a very important point with the US constitution. If one single person can decide, then we usually end up in trouble. De3ciding too fast can be a problem.

----
It is not how fast you go
it is when you get there.

cnnek's picture
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Delaiah,

I agree that we should confuse greed and power lust. But, they do not exist in isolation. They feed off each other, and interact with each other in a dialectical relationship, that includes all other elements in the socio-economic matrix of society. Nothing exists in isolation. Everything interacts with everything else directly, and/or indirectly. Furthermore, everything feeds off of everything else, and is fed off of by everything else in the dialectic of the socio-economic matrix.

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

Delaiah's picture
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I fully understand the concept of interconnection in the world around us. However, the human mind trends strongly toward the linear when addressing that world. Just think about many of our hectic modern lives. We usually end up with a big mess by trying to do everything at once.

When presented with "the world today" as a problem, we have to select an element to solve in order to begin and be effective. Sometimes it is all that a person can understand. Sometimes it is a question of resources. For example, beautifying the city where I live is an overwhelming task. Our Parks director proceeds a median or park at a time as she can. While a great deal remains to be done, her efforts have produced a notable improvement over the years.

If we can remove or somehow ameliorate an element, the world becomes a better place. In the tangled mass of difficulties, we need to find a root cause and start pulling. Take Zimbabwe, once a prosperous and fertile country. Today, a disaster zone. The dictator, Mugabe, is one of many roots of the problem. Find a way to remove him and you can move on to another root cause. Things won't be magical and happy but they will be better. Then, stop the next power seekers or convince them of a better way. Then, go after profiteers and land barons. And on it goes.

Of course, nothing says that you can't teach a land baron the civic value and personal profit in using his stretch of Zimbabwe to produce food for the public. At the same time, I could proceed to rally and equip forces to oust Mugabe. Good ol' division of labor!

cnnek's picture
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Everyone,

Thank-you very much for responding! This discussion is great. I'm very happy that this format is working so well. Some execellent points are being made.

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

earthling's picture
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What is good about this thread, in my view, is that there is no bickering.

People present their ideas, and do not immediately shoot down opposing ideas.

Where does that get us? We will have to wait.

----
It is not how fast you go
it is when you get there.

Enigmni Freak's picture
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We live in defining times where the future and science fiction are blurred out over the time/space continuum. We call this FutureTime. It is a period existing almost as a dreamscape filled with surrealistic images of trends and conditions that are spinning out at chaotic speeds. It is a time where reality and dreams suggest the third realm of imagination manifestation through creative ideation.

Such a chaos of concepts was once unperceived (unseen) by mankind but now it is reconstituting as order or unity at a higher level of existence and we are beginning to see it for what it is. Now, humanity is on the threshold of visualizing Future/Time as a startling reality while it concurrently dovetails with AncientPast to present a vision of human duration. We are in a state of intellectual and spiritual limbo that marks an Age or a World of Being transcending on to create the Omega Age.

This pronouncement, regarding a period or a state of being, is not announced flippantly for the gravity of the situation is ominous in scope when one considers the destiny of sentient beings. Its very ascendancy suggests that we have reached a watershed in human development and turning back is not an option. From this point on, life as we once knew it will never be the same. The age of ignorance has passed.

We beings communicate on the intellectual fly at speeds some call Instant Messaging or IM. The web of networks spread at geometric rates all over the Earth informing and amplifying knowledge and data to augment the global psyche. There are few secrets and much strategy to work the data of business and be-ness anywhere over the face of the planet. Such a rampant flux and reflux of thought globules is unprecedented in this age but there is increasing evidence that it is a reflection of ancient knowledge and wisdom given to us long ago, but was lost in hoary ages past.

The very complexity of Life's physical makeup suggests design and genetic manipulation of a program few of us did anything but take (the human genome) for granted. The very essence of DNA played through the complexity of Quantum Physics and amplified by Nanotechnology, Holography and Virtual Reality, suggests laws and genetic engineering far more advanced than any simplistic happenstance of evolution. To get where we are now, required help.

For many of us who are now discovering the Truths of Alternate History anterior to the well-worked-out company-line of academia and touted by the almost daily discovery of new elements to the puzzle of existence -- the dawning of FutureTime is readily apparent. Though only a few thousand can see this gestalt reality at present, its embellishment is spreading like wildfire in the background of the generative order.

The ancient shamanistic concept of a god who always spoke in symbols to our mentality said, "Can you see what I am showing you?" It meant that every act and every instant of our life was part of a multifaceted broadcast of attributes of related meanings imbedded in potential acts and events that could result in positive or negative consequences for us all. We were given the mind to see this but few have turned on the light. Due to the sequences of events and actions, we are now all forced to look at the consequences of our lives. It is time we moved beyond ourselves to the realm of the collective.

The spike of time is rapidly approaching where we will all know that this event of the snake biting its tail will complete the cycle and the reality of our existences will be put on display. The wars we fought were in reality over issues common to all of us, but were manipulated by greed and guilt to amplify the self over the all. There has always been but one truth…and there is no religion higher than Truth. The record of history is nature (Physics or God) and its book is open for all to read. Though there are many bifurcations to this arrow of time/space, one knows if he/she truly knows himself or herself.

With all the life experiences many of us have been subjected to, and all we have watched in our fellow human beings…it is easy to see our destiny rushing toward a final fulfillment of purpose. We are almost there.

cnnek's picture
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Earthling,

[/Where does that get us? We will have to wait.]
{The above is a quote from Earthling's post}

When you are really thinking out a problem, not guessing and/or searching for the answer that you want, you never really know where your thought is going to lead you until you get there. But, once I have thought out the problem carefully, I often wonder why the answer wasn't obvious to begin with. I quite often get a good laugh out of that! But, the whole thought process gives me a great deal of joy, and there is wonderous mystery in it!

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

earthling's picture
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yes of course, many problems look more difficult when we start, and the solution ends up simpler than we first thought.
I'm an engineer, and things in that general field often are like that. We engineers don't get respect from some folks, because after you design something it looks simple.

But I agree about the joy - we make new things, be it machines, gardens, music or something else. Before we made the effort, nobody knew how to do these things. Well sort of we re-invent many things. But the joy of finding out how to do something well is something unique.

This is why am hopeful. Many people feel like this, and they will come up with these new solutions. Just because they want to, not because anyone pays them for it.

----
It is not how fast you go
it is when you get there.

cnnek's picture
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Earthling,

I understand your point; but, in my opinion, it is too idealistic unless you can afford it. People with the money that they need to live on, pay their bills, and maintain a good and full life style for the rest of their lives owe it to society to give freely of their talents. But, for the rest of us, the money must, by necessity, come first! Nothing, not even sustainable happiness, is possible without money! Unrealistic irrational and illogical idealistic perspectives propagated by Mensa, and like minded groups are major contributing factors to the socio-economic mess in which the world finds itself at present. And in this regard, Mensa, and like minded groups need, at the very least, to be severly criticized; because, what they have done is criminal in my opinion!

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

cnnek's picture
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Essentially, I agree that a smaller population would be better. And, part of it is going to happen naturally as a consequence of the present reality. By the end of this century, the world population, in my opinion, is probably going to be about 3.5 billion people, +/- 500,000,000 people. Furthermore, I think that birth control is necessary; but, it must be approached with a great deal of caution. Otherwise, it could lead to some very nasty racial, and socio-economic conflicts that would not be in anybody's interest. In this regard, it must be remembered that the world needs its cultural, and ethnic diversity. Furthermore, I think that a world population of any less than 2 billion is too small. But, I think that a world population of over 3 billion would be too large. The ones of us want to colonize new worlds could still do it, and the ones of us that want to stay on this world could do that, too.

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

Enigmni Freak's picture
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We have overplayed our hand. We all need to grow up.

MPajak's picture
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I was reintroduced to the work of Buckminster Fuller (a design scientist from the 1960s) just recently. The Institute that remains dedicated to his work remains a fervent supporter of design ideas that benefit all of humanity by doing more with less so we can build a better future. They even run a contest each year for the best design idea that will help humanity. The jury panel for this contest represents some amazing people who are working on solutions for our future. I felt better just knowing about these people.

If you want to check out the content movie, here it is:
http://challenge.bfi.org/movie

Click on jury to read more about the people involved and if you've never read any of Bucky Fuller's works, they still contain relevant ideas for today.

MPajak

red pill junkie's picture
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I'd never thought of design as a science. And I studied Industrial Design BTW! Originally I thought I could design things that could actually help people; over they years I realized that I'm nothing but a glorified draftsman :-(

If I could design something that could actually make a difference, that would be a house supported on hydraulic pylons; that could rise itself up automatically, in case of a flooding. I think a thing like that could be petty useful in coastal areas, specially in Developing nations.

So why I don't design this? Because in order to eat I gotta work 10 hours-a-day designing things for the wealthy people that can actually pay for design in this country. I even remember a co-worker that used to criticize Buckminster Fuller, saying the only reason the man could come up with all those crazy wonderful ideas, was because his wife supported him economically at the beginning of his career. Words come out of bitterness, I know; but that co-worker had a point.

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

earthling's picture
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The way most houses are designed basically relies on gravity. You lean a bunch of walls against each other, and then you put a roof on the top to keep out the rain.

A modern sailboat on the other hand is a self-sustaining box, with some pointy parts on it. You can roll these things upside down, clockwise or counter clockwise, or end over end. You can throw them up in the air and let them drop in the water from a height of several meters. These things stays in one piece, and people inside can survive all this. This happens for real.

Why don't we build single family homes like that, to survive hurrcanes and earthquakes? We know the structural engineering.

----
It is not how fast you go
it is when you get there.

red pill junkie's picture
Member since:
12 April 2007
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I think people in the Netherlands should help us with those boat ideas. They've been living on boats for hundreds of years; and although sometimes it was viewed as an alternative for poor people, nowadays you can find very posh houses with all the luxuries and comforts of modern-day life, who also happen to float as a boat.

And if those house-boats could also have a roof garden where people could grow some of their food, that could be very helpful too.

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

MPajak's picture
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Why would your co-worker criticize somebody because his wife supports him to achieve his life's dream? It sounds like a good gig to me. Should we discount what Bucky Fuller did because of it? Seems kind of silly.

I know we all have day jobs we have to do to earn our keep but who else is going to look out for our future if we don't? Can we trust our politicians? Hmmm. I don't know about you but I don't like thinking about our politicians designing our future. I think each one of us needs to take responsibility in our own way. Maybe we don't have time to design a whole huge thing, but maybe we can design something small or come up with an ingenious idea or two. I don't know. What do you think? If we all just throw up our hands because we are too busy, who's left to focus on our future?

MPajak

red pill junkie's picture
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I know that my co-worker was speaking out of bitterness because we all had lousy jobs —I still do— and he might have thought he could also make great things if he didn't have to worry about the day-to-day struggle. Kind of a "Clerks" mentality, if you know what I mean ;-)

The internet is creating novel venues to contribute with your little grain of sand. Cooperative on-line efforts like Wikipedia is one example. I think they should be more efforts like these, focused into helping design strategies, systems or even objects intended to better our planet and society. In that way you don't have to do everything on your own, and can still feel you're part of the solution.

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

MPajak's picture
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31 October 2008
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I understand the "Clerks" mentality but there is also something quite limiting about that mentality. There is an implied helplessness that allows for giving up. We all have that mentality once in awhile but I'm slowly trying to separate myself from that and realize that I am really in control of my destiny. I'm the one responsible for my life so if something is not working or I hate my job, who else is going to fix it? Just me. I don't mean to rock your boat or anything, that's just how I feel about that mentality. I think too many of us give in to it.

I readily acknolwedge your idea about the Internet giving us more ways to contribute our little grain of sand than ever before. That is the true beauty of the Internet (in addition to discussions like these!). Thanks for pointing that out. Now the challenge lies in finding the right place in which to contribute your grain of sand, right?

red pill junkie's picture
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Many people scoff at Carlos Castañeda's work, but for all the likely fantasies and literary liberties portrayed in his books, there are nonetheless many pearls of wisdom embedded in his prose.

One of them is the concept of taking responsibility for your actions. Yes, there are many aspects of your life of which you don't have control —the family you were born, the country you live in— but the way you react to those factors, and the decisions you take based on those is entirely up to you... obviously, it's simpler said than done —specially when you reach 'certain' age ;-)

And about finding a place in which to contribute your grain of sand, let me give you a little hint: you're in it right now :-P

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie