Russian Doll type Universe?

For some years now I have had the following idea regarding the form our universe takes, allowing both finite and infinite possibilities.

Throughout history children have been taught complex ideas through play, toys, rhymes, etc. The Russian Doll is similar to the Chinese Boxes, and this shows how space can incorporate other objects within itself. One doll is inside another doll, inside another doll, etc. This happens because each of the dolls are in proportion-exact ratio to the others. One may be smaller in size, having different measurements, but when the measurements are calculated against each other they are in the same ratio.

I believe our universe is but one inside another universe of a larger size but in the same ratio/proportion to our own.

This allows a finite universe but the actual number of universes outside our own is infinite. The same applies within our universe. There are smaller, forms which when looked at under a microscope are brand new worlds and dimensions. There is, I believe, a barrier between the two, which is why so much that occurs within the quantum spectrum doesn't quite fit with ours. The barrier is a form of tolerance area where things can move a little but are stopped from damaging each other irreperably. The other smaller, proportioned space world can operate slightly differently to ours but must do so within the boundaries that are allowed within the proportion/ratio limits.

This is how a Russian doll can be pink faced on one, blue faced on another, have a pattern on another, but still be part of the same ratio/proportion and fit in nicely within the same space. Could that space called a black hole actually be another universe? We'll probably never know.

Nothing is quite what we have been told, but then not everything is understood by science.

Our own bodies are a form of universe within this universe. Can you say exactly how your body is operating in every part of its being? Scientists still don't understand all that happens in our bodies but these things happen.

What do you all think?

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red pill junkie's picture
Member since:
12 April 2007
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1 day 14 hours

I think that idea is rather elegant, and I'd love to see if there's a say we could research it further. I once read that the so-called Big Bang was the end result of a collision between different 'Branes', so we—the observable universe—are caught up in an endless cycle of death and rebirth.

What intrigues me is if our consciousness can traverse through these different layers of existence. Maybe that's wha happens—or is supposed to happen—after we die.

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

Michael H's picture
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19 December 2007
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6 years 31 weeks

Reading this brought to mind the discussion between Yogananda and Sri Yuktewsar in Chapter 43 of Yogananda's classic Autobiography of a Yogi. Yukteswar discusses the levels of existence beyond the physical realm, which he describes as the astral and the causal realms, stating the following regarding the astral realms:

"The astral universe, made of various subtle vibrations of light and color, is hundreds of times larger than the material cosmos. The entire physical creation hangs like a little solid basket under the huge luminous balloon of the astral sphere."

After a discussion of the depth and complexity of the astral realms, he has this to say about the causal realm:

"The causal world is indescribably subtle," he replied. "In order to understand it, one would have to possess such tremendous powers of concentration that he could close his eyes and visualize the astral cosmos and the physical cosmos in all their vastness-the luminous balloon with the solid basket-as existing in ideas only. If by this superhuman concentration one succeeded in converting or resolving the two cosmoses with all their complexities into sheer ideas, he would then reach the causal world and stand on the borderline of fusion between mind and matter.

Consider this statement again: " . . . visualize the astral cosmos and the physical cosmos in all their vastness-the luminous balloon with the solid basket-as existing in ideas only. The implication of this statement, made explicit elsewhere in the chapter, is that all realms arise from consciousness itself. This is, not so coincidentally, the understanding that is common to all mystical realization of all traditions.

As Carol suggests in her main post, clues that point to this are everywhere in the physical cosmos, and can be seen as varying levels of organization of all matter, both organic and inorganic. Carol's example of the complex organization of our bodies is a good one - circulation, respiration and digestion are all incredibly complex processes; operations that go on at the cellular level alone are complicated enough to fill entire books. If one considers consciousness as the ground of being instead of an emergent property of matter, it's not difficult at all to visualize a greater consciousness operating within existence itself.

What few consider though, is that this greater consciousness also exists within us. If someone looks deeply enough within, they may discover that Carol's "Russian Doll Universe" actually arises from the consciousness that is within us. What we see and describe as an external cosmos is perceived as outside of us as long as we think that it does.

earthling's picture
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22 November 2004
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Perhaps another aspect to this is limits of our perception and understanding.

We teach kids that atoms, molecules and such are like solar systems and galaxies. There are science fiction stories about this - our galaxies are atoms within a larger universe.

Most of our understanding is in 2 dimensions. We can understand small things in 3 dimensions, mostly this is limited to things we can touch. Large things, say the size of a mountain, are much more difficult. There is a reason that we "grasp" a concept.

We can talk about 4 dimensions, and do formal mathematics or have spiritual discussions. But we don't really understand it in the same way.

What I am getting at is this: perhaps we see similarities everywhere, on different scales, because these patterns are all we are equipped to see. Not because these patterns are all there is.

----
The large print giveth,
The small print taketh away.

red pill junkie's picture
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Quote:

What I am getting at is this: perhaps we see similarities everywhere, on different scales, because these patterns are all we are equipped to see. Not because these patterns are all there is.

Kind of like a 'conceptual pareidolia'? Interesting.

-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

earthling's picture
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22 November 2004
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1 day 6 hours

Yes seeing what we are familiar with is one side.

Another side is that we are probably flatlanders.

----
The large print giveth,
The small print taketh away.

Carol_Noble's picture
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3 June 2008
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5 years 20 weeks

Carol A Noble

I find the ideas expressed by others here of great interest. I know that perception is not the way we think it is. I have a mentally disabled son and I know from his limited perception that we often are taught things incorrectly.

I find it hard to say exactly what I believe and feel about the way the universe is, and the concept of the Russian Doll, or our individual selves, does at least give some hint of what we should be attempting to perceive, but I accept that our brains do not allow us to perceive fully the way things actually are. Perhaps if we did we may find it impossible to live a life, or function.

I have had experiences which some may call astral, others OBEs, or just different. I have experienced the awareness self in the blackness, and seen the realities as if on tv screens hovering amongst the blackness of non-time. I know that my awareness self can move in time and space at will, but it can't experience things physically unless within a physical body, and that means you have to sacrifice something - namely be imprisoned, temporarily, within a time period and a limited brain.

We don't experience time in the correct way, but only the way our limited brains can interpret what we experience. We look at things one/two dimensionally, but not three dimensionally or four. I also know from my son's disabilities that perception of dimensional space is an inner perception, not purely from the eyes. That is why it is so easy to fool people with optical illusions. Dimension is based in the inner perception, not the eyes. This was recognised back in the mid-1800s, or so I found in an article from a book which was a compendium of weekly publications of the time.

earthling's picture
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22 November 2004
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I mostly agree with your observations, if not with all of your conclusions. But I do agree that there is much more than what we perceive and much more than we understand.

Ok fist, what we can see with our eyes is very incomplete. It is evident in aircraft pilots, navigators and others. They have to do it by the numbers, by instruments. Their spatial (3-D) perception fails them.

There is some 3-D that we understand, but it is small scale. A few meters at most. Our brain cannot picture much more. Our brain does understand 3-D to some extent, for example mine does. Many chemists (the scientists, not the folks who sell you Aspirin) can visualize molecules, and how they collide and react to make new molecules.

So I say 3 dimensions, but definetely not 4 spatial dimensions.

Time and speed are also very hard to judge. If you drive about 200 kilometers and hour, it is very hard to tell the difference between a truck going 90km/h and a tree that is next to the truck.

Poeple perceive events that are within 1 second of each other (or probably 2 seconds), as happening at the same time.

So yes, our physical brain has these limitations. It it quite evident. If some people can overcome these limits - well that is difficult to verify for other people.

I have dreams that some people might call "lucid" dreams. But only because I know that I a dreaming, in the middle of the dream. While in the dream, I do not believe that this is reality, I know that I am asleep. At those times, I do not believe that I am manipulating real live.

Of someone has a dream that they believe to be reality, and they are in control, how is that "lucid"? How is that different than just dreaming, and waking up to see that they were not in control after all?

----
The large print giveth,
The small print taketh away.