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News Briefs 14-04-2009

By Jameskeon

Short and late. Post your thoughts.

Quote of the Day:

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.

Lenin

Jameske
Related

41 Comments

    1. Eisenhower’s quote

      “The things I saw beggar description…the visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations to propaganda.” (Ohrdruf April 15, 1945.)

      Epic. Fail 🙁

      —–
      It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
      It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

      Red Pill Junkie

    2. Do you guys favor Holocaust Denial?
      I’m just curious since you haven’t responded to the question posed. Holocaust denial isn’t like Moon Landing denial because there is a hate and racist ingredient involved and so I’d like to hear Jameske’s thoughts on this issue as well. Jameske, where are you? Time to say something.

      1. OK
        i had promised myself i would not get involved, I found the video interesting and well within the realms of alternative history. Much of what was in the movie was news to me and i found it incredibly interesting. I admit my ignorance on the topic but I am also intrigued by what was revealed in the video. I have posted on this topic in the news a number of times previously and I know that it produces many strong feelings. That is understandable. I would be more interested if people would tackle what is said in the actual video. There are other films on this website and really they deserve some consideration, at the very least to destroy a very wrong set of ideas. But I definitely see a serious effort to convince people of certain events being not true and if one looks at other videos on the website it is clear enough that either people with numbered tattoos on their arms witnessed the making of soap out of human beings, shrunken heads and lampshades from tattoos are a matter of discussion or they are not telling the truth. BUT why does any of that mean that there was not a systematic ethnic cleansing policy by the Nazis during world war 2?

        1. Well…
          You got yourself involved when you posted a link to Holocaustdenialvideos.com.

          Since you admit ignorance on the topic, you are judging it from an unrealistically naïve perspective. Do you think that these videos and Holocaustdenialvideos.com is the place to gather your information from on the subject? Maybe you should gather a little more information from somewhere…anywhere else?

          Sonderaktion1005:

          The first Holocaust deniers were the Nazis themselves. Historians have documented evidence that Heinrich Himmler instructed his camp commandants to destroy records, crematoria, and other signs of mass extermination, as Germany’s defeat became imminent and the Nazi leaders realized they would most likely be captured and brought to trial.[21] As one of many examples, the bodies of the 25,000 mostly Latvian Jews whom Friedrich Jeckeln and his gang of killers had shot at Rumbula (near Riga) in late 1941 were dug up and burned in 1943.[22] Similar operations were undertaken at Belzec, Treblinka and other death camps.[21] In the infamous Posen speech on October 4, 1943, Himmler explicitly referred to the murder of the Jews of Europe and further stated that the murder must be permanently kept secret:

          “I also want to refer here very frankly to a very difficult matter. We can now very openly talk about this among ourselves, and yet we will never discuss this publicly. Just as we did not hesitate on June 30, 1934, to perform our duty as ordered and put comrades who had failed up against the wall and execute them, we also never spoke about it, nor will we ever speak about it. Let us thank God that we had within us enough self-evident fortitude never to discuss it among us, and we never talked about it. Every one of us was horrified, and yet every one clearly understood that we would do it next time, when the order is given and when it becomes necessary.
          I am now referring to the evacuation of the Jews, to the extermination of the Jewish people.[23]”

          Since this topic is interesting to you, maybe you should read up on Sonderaktion 1005?

          Here’s some more historical fact for you.

          In 1945, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander, anticipated that someday an attempt would be made to recharacterize the Nazi crimes as propaganda and took steps against it:

          “The same day[24] I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never been able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain however, that I have never at any time experienced an equal sense of shock.”

          I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that “the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda”. Some members of the visiting party were unable to go through with the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton’s headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and the British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt.”

          Eisenhower, upon finding the victims of the death camps, he ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even made to bury the dead. He did this adding these words:

          “Get it all on record now – get the films – get the witnesses – because somewhere down the track of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened.”

          1. Editing Note
            Hi RonB,

            Just an editing note: something in your post was breaking the webpage, I think it may have been something to do with the quote tags that were being used. As such, the quote tags have been removed, hopefully the small edits made still present the material properly. Let me know if you need any changes made.

            Kind regards,
            Greg
            ——————————————-
            You monkeys only think you’re running things

          2. Thanks Greg
            Thanks for the editing job. I realized something I did caused a break but couldn’t get back in there to edit it. But the info is fine the way you have it there.

            Just FYI, the info I entered here is just the tip of the iceberg. There is so much more documentation that can be quoted from that is clearly not propaganda but well documented and historical fact that I’ll be happy to help inform. If Jameske is really “intrigued by what was revealed in the video” maybe he’ll be more intrigued by the overwhelming amounts of documented historical information about the Holocaust out there that refutes Holocaust Denial, considering he will “admit [his] ignorance on the topic”.

            Indeed, “A lie told often enough becomes the truth.” Let’s just make sure a lie isn’t told in the place of the truth.

            Concerning this being a valid alternate history topic, I totally agree and feel it’s a valid topic to discuss. That being said, I think it’s a sham and an effort to water down a heinous historical fact with the ultimate goal of trying to show the Third Reich in a good light. This ends up being a punch in the face to the millions of people, their families, their descendants (really the entire world), who were butchered, killed, or worse during WWII.

          3. Posting thoughts
            Like you, I agree that it’s a valid topic for discussion (I think all topics are), and I think laws which don’t allow for discussion are plain wrong. Talking about issues such as this generally results in education, which is always a good thing. I think also that there is a gradation from “Holocaust denial” right down to simply querying a few of the things said about the Holocaust, and I would hardly accuse Jameske of the former. Having said that, I also think that if we are questioning some of these minor facts, it’s important to query our own motivations for doing so.

            So I don’t feel that Jameseke should feel compelled to remove the link. If I were to take any issue, it would be that the link is not exactly ‘news’ – but then, Jameske often puts things that are currently interesting him in his news briefs.

            Kind regards,
            Greg
            ——————————————-
            You monkeys only think you’re running things

          4. Posting thoughts, too
            [quote=Greg]Like you, I agree that it’s a valid topic for discussion (I think all topics are), and I think laws which don’t allow for discussion are plain wrong. Talking about issues such as this generally results in education, which is always a good thing.
            [/quote]

            So far agreement.

            [quote=Greg]
            I think also that there is a gradation from “Holocaust denial” right down to simply querying a few of the things said about the Holocaust, and I would hardly accuse Jameske of the former. Having said that, I also think that if we are questioning some of these minor facts, it’s important to query our own motivations for doing so.
            [/quote]

            The video does not come from youtube etc. but from the site
            “holocaustdenialvideos.com”. The main site is explicit:
            “We just believe the holocaust is a hoax”. So if we concentrate just on the material, the gradation you mentioned points very much to “Holocaust denial” and *not* only “simply querying a few of the things”.
            So while Jameske may not agree with the conclusions, it is highly unlikely that he does not know what the content claims. Which leads to the next question…

            [quote=Greg]
            So I don’t feel that Jameseke should feel compelled to remove the link. If I were to take any issue, it would be that the link is not exactly ‘news’ – but then, Jameske often puts things that are currently interesting him in his news briefs.
            [/quote]

            What are your guidelines which decides if a content is acceptable for publication ? We exclude all technical posts (hydrogen spitting black holes etc.), only those which mount a personal attack which a falsifiable claim.
            If James Randi claims on his website that Rupert Sheldrake peculated money from government spendings and someone post this claim here without any further investigation, what is your response ? How would you define and persecute libel if
            you were a lawmaker ?

          5. Jameske, Greg – I want an answer
            I asked about the jews from my old hometown, which was Dortmund in Germany.

            I asked perhaps rethorically, where did all these people go, and where is Silberstein.

            I really want an answer – where did all these people go?

            Just posting links supporting denial is not good enough.

            —-
            It is not how fast you go
            it is when you get there.

  2. Buchenwald
    The same question from me.

    The site mades it plain with “Holocaust Myth” that they
    do not only try to debunk the “lampshade/soap” myth of Buchenwald (a good answer from StraightDope

    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2511/did-the-nazis-make-lampshades-out-of-human-skin)

    but tries to use it as “evidence” that the Holocaust did not happen. If you try to raise the question, I expect from you that you made your homework because of the sensitive topic. *Did* you made your homework ?

  3. Buchenwald
    I love The Daily Grail but that link was just sad to see being promoted here.

    The Buchenwald site is the real propaganda.

    I’m not Jewish (blood or religion)

    I’m from Puerto Rico and I’ve had the great opportunity to meet some wonderful people marked with digits on their arms (turists to the island at coffee shops and on my own travels). Soon all survivors from the Holocaust will have passed away and if this absurd idea that such event was a ‘hoax’ continues to spread…everything will be lost and forgoten.

    So basically, this idea implies that every survivor has been making-up all those brutal events for their entire life span…really?…wow… that’s epic.

    maybe it was the way Jameske posted it but after following up with TDG for so long now, I leave with a bad taste.

  4. Buchenwald
    Hello,

    If you repeat a lie often enough..has anyone of the offended respondants seen any solid proof ever ? Surely the numerous survivors are proof that not everyone died there. There’s no denying of the atrocities the nazi’s committed, however the number the zionists came up with in the early sixties had everything to do with a- the fact they just acquired nuclear technology(the bomb) and b- a ritualistic/occult (Kabbala) number of 6,000,000 victims that coincidentally had previously appeared prior and after the first world war. * Ben Weintraub’s 1995 book, Holocaust Dogma Of
    Judaism, fully explores and explains the Kabalistic gematria and occultism involved in the number. 6,000,000 is the number of perfect souls times ten, and ten is number of the Sephiroth, the divine emanations of G_d as seen in the Kabala.

    So with the A Bomb in hand the zionists had extortion power, one that certainly Germany feared, being well aware of the ruthless nature of the demonic scripture better known as the Talmud, that is you can rob or kill anyone(goyim) that is not of our kind.

    BTW anyone interested in the official endrapport of the International Red Cross concerning the Nazi concentration camps would note , like bishop Williams did, that officially less then 300,000 died there (292.077 is the number).

    So here we have the outragous situation that the official international end rapport is deemed illegal to submit to socalled courts of justice because the occult propaganda number has to take precedence in other to prevent the zionists from detonating A bombs in goyim territory.

    Btw my inlaw grandfather was kept in Buchenwald (3years), he met Honecker there(later head of the DDR), he died in 1995. Red Cross number of recorded deaths there 20,671.

    The Love That You Withhold, Is The Pain That You Carry

    1. Numbers
      I don’t know why people think that lowering the numbers of the people killed during the Holocaust, or reminding us that not only Jewish, but also Poles, Russians, Hungarians, Italians, French, Gypsies, Germans, mentally ill patients, homosexuals and a big etcetera somehow lowers the criminality of the Nazi death machine.

      I don’t know why people think that placing the cause of death of a camp prisoner on typhus or starvation is less disgusting or horrifying that a death by gas chamber with a subsequent cremation.

      I don’t know why people suspicious of the lampshades made with human skin think that by dismissing that almost trivial event, they will be able to trump the whole historical reality of the Holocaust.

      I don’t know why people think that by exposing the atrocities committed by the ally forces and the Soviets during WW2 somehow makes Hitler less of an a*%hole.

      I don’t know why people think that by exposing the propagandistic exploitation of the Holocaust for whatever political interest is pursued by a given government (Military spending, placing a wall to limit the transit of the Plaestinians, take your pick) instantaneously overrides the historical reality of the Holocaust.

      To me, the historical reality of the Holocaust is precisely what makes me condemn the actions of the nation of Israel regarding the Palestinian people. The suffering of their fathers and grandfathers DOES NOT grant them permission to commit any kind of abuse they see fit to protect their interests.

      On the contrary: the Shoah forever binds them to remain in the path of the justs, lest the blood spilled all those years ago was for nothing.

      —–
      It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
      It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

      Red Pill Junkie

      1. You have to understand…
        that it is perfectly fine and acceptable to hate Jews! No, really. Let me explain.

        Now if we were to get into religious questions, there is an explanation of this hatred based on the election of Israel and the opposition of Satanic forces. However, it is unnecessary to accomplish our goal.

        The Jews lost control of Israel in Biblical times and were driven almost entirely out of their homeland. Because Jews believe they are God’s chosen people and their way of life is divinely dictated, they are highly resistant to assimilation. This makes them permanent outsiders in other cultures. Due to their extreme dispersion, Jews have rarely possessed any kind of defensive capability. They are rendered “different” and powerless.

        Basically, Jews become handy targets for blame or victimization. In the West, once Christianity grew large enough, there was no longer an identification with the Jewish source of the religion. Further, as states adopted Christianity, nominal Christians were born rather than converted. “Everybody” was Christian, except Jews. Racism reared it head. Then church leaders labeled Jews Christ-killers by association, never mind that Jesus and his followers were Jewish. Finally, owing to religious convention against usury, an accommodation was made with Jews to serve as bankers. It’s real easy to hate a banker. Culturally, Europeans built a world where a Jew could be blamed whenever convenient. He’s foreign, un-Christian, and inexplicably wealthy. You can hate him or worse and he can’t stop you. It is unfortunately ingrained in the tiny, tiny minds of some people from childhood and resorted to rather than personal growth.

        In Islam, a similar circumstance exists. When Jews refused to acknowledge Mohammad’s new cult and convert, he became enraged and slaughtered them. The Koran to this day demands that Moslems seek the extermination of the Jews. In Islam you can kill a Jew and do nothing wrong.

        The fact remains, though, that these attacks and hatred are wrong. The Holocaust is something else. It is so big and so monstrous it cannot be hidden. To justify themselves and their hate, some anti-Semites have to reconcile attempted genocide and mass murder with their self-image, warped as it may be, of superiority, morality, and even liberalism. So they try to pretend that it didn’t happen, or that it wasn’t unique, or that it is all propaganda. Otherwise, they have to admit that it was evil. Then they have to either question their worldview or admit they are evil too.

    2. peronal stuff
      Where I was born and lived for the first 20 years or so of my life, there were not many Jews. 30 years earlier there were a lot of them. Where did they go, and why?

      Also I remember an incident told tio me by my father. Here it goes, this was for real, they called each other by their last names in high school:

      Althaus (the class speaker I think) recommends that the school investigates if Silbertein< could perhaps be Jewish.

      Within a few days, Silberstein is gone, nobody every sees him again.

      Althaus on the other hand becomes a local SPD official. The SPD are a sort of moderatly socialist political party.

      Althaus made a career after the war, long enough to make it into my lifetime.

      Where is Silberstein?

      —-
      It is not how fast you go
      it is when you get there.

  5. Buchenwald
    Well said, RPG.

    There’s no denying of the atrocities the nazi’s committed,

    Well, then it isn’t neither a “lie” nor a “myth”.


    […], being well aware of the ruthless nature of the demonic scripture better known as the Talmud, that is you can rob or kill anyone(goyim) that is not of our kind.

    Abracadabra. You are now leader of the government. According
    to you we have these dangerous people. How do you handle
    them ?

    Do come such things as proscribing, ousting, imprisoning
    and killing to your mind ? The main problem of people who
    fear (and hate) jews is their incredibleness: “We hate those
    JEWS….but…but..it is not possible that we would have
    deliberately *harmed* them”.

    You, Hitler and his nazi followers fear and hate Jews. Hitler had the power to commit the Holocaust, so what on earth should have prevented him to do it ?! Charity ?


    Btw my inlaw grandfather was kept in Buchenwald (3years), he met Honecker there(later head of the DDR), he died in 1995.

    *The* Erich Honecker was imprisoned in Moabit (Berlin) and later in the Brandenburg-Görden prison. No Buchenwald. So

    a) your grandfather spiced up his story or
    b) he met another Erich Honecker or
    c) you simply lied to advance your cause

    1. Zionists
      Hello,

      First up i don’t hate jews, i talked about zionists, and yes i consider The Talmud a demonic scripture, very different in nature as the Torah, who’s followers btw-that is real Jews, hate the zionists likely even more then i do, because it’s is they that suffer the backlash of zionists crimes first.

      As for Hitler, sigh it’s unfortunately not common knowledge, though i’m sure he knew, that his grandfather was a Rothchild’s bastard, as his 13 year old greatgrandmother served as a maid in the Vienna Rothchild’s household, and we’ve all heard how agreeable young flesh is to rich old men, not to mention the Talmud practically prescribes it. Btw ever wondered why Charly Chaplin looked sooo much alike in his movie the great dictator, well now you know.

      Concerning my in law grandfather, ive known him as a kind old man, he was held for his communist sympathies, i believe what he told me. I wonder whether the Berlin prisons were’nt evacuated after in 43 the intensive bombing started.

      The Love That You Withhold, Is The Pain That You Carry

      1. Great discussion topic here
        Nice to have a discussion topic about demon zionists here at the Daily Grail. Glad we could get this discussion going, this is certainly what I hoped to be discussing here. Should we be discussing the pro’s of genocide next?

        So any more commentary from the Forum Ops about this line of discussion? While I have lots to say about the hate mongering going on, I really hate to keep the flames going on these boards since this isn’t what I come here to discuss. Are we just going to ignore this and hope it goes away? I sure hope not.

        1. a simple reminder
          In my time at TDG I’ve learned that this site does not shy away from controversial topics. There are plenty of subjects that cause a deep emotional response depending on the person’s background. 9-11, JFK assasination, the Holy Grail, etc.

          Of course, we would be extremely dense if we failed to address the significance of the Holocaust in the lives of millions people, and its monumental inffluence in the shaping of modern history.

          So, I would urge the members that are inclined to enter in such a discussion to take this in mind, and follow the rules of civility that are customary in this site.

          —–
          It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
          It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

          Red Pill Junkie

          1. Having said that….
            …I would like to know what’s the argument behind FirstBorn’s statement that the Talmud is a“demonic scripture”.

            —–
            It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
            It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

            Red Pill Junkie

          2. Yea and nice zinger for the quote too
            “Quote of the Day:

            A lie told often enough becomes the truth.”

            Based on the quote of the day, I suppose there’s a message there for us all.

            Exactly my point.

          3. I already did
            [quote]Look I’m not saying that we should censor topics, but I would like someone from Daily Grail to at least comment on the link, the quote of the day for this day, and our comments. I don’t like Holocaust Denial for many reasons and if we’re going to be discussing it here then I have a lot to say about it.[/quote]

            I already did comment on that when I quoted Eisenhower.

            [quote]True. But none of the issues you mention have genocide and racism involved in them. They are not issues that have been used for hate mongering.[/quote]

            I would dare to say that is debatable. Many people find deeply inflammatory the allegations that ‘9-11 was an inside job’. It goes against everything they stand for, and I’m sure they would put those theories in the very same category that the Holocaust denial theories.

            [quote]The issue of holocost denial is 99% an issue of incorrect knowledge or pretend knowledge. So much of the issue is documented for certainty that it is illegal in certain governments to claim it is not true. So is it an issue to be skeptical on or is it just an issue for hate mongerers to hook their hate onto?[/quote]

            Even though I think I’ve made clear my POV against Holocaust denial, I do have to admit I find questionable the idea of prohibit the discussion of such controversial issues. I would like to think that in the free market of ideas, the open discussion of such topics would make those theories fall down like a house of cards by their own weight.

            To legally persecute the people who utter those ideas only makes them look like martyrs on the eyes of their supporters. like the person who made that Buchenwald movie, who doesn’t even care (or dare) to put his name, no doubt because he would say it is to protect himself from evil repercussions brought by his “valiant pursue of truth”.
            —–
            It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
            It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

            Red Pill Junkie

          4. Oops
            You most definitely did comment on it, totally my bad. And you’ve commented more here again that I’ve missed (and don’t know how I missed it) so hopefully you’ll accept my apology on that.

            I agree with your point that it’s inappropriate to prohibit discussion of Holocaust Denial, or any subject really, but it appeared that there was a promotion of the concept with the quote of the day. Really I just think that subject in particular rubs me the wrong way because it’s mostly used as a method of disguising racism and hate rather than an actual discussion of an actual subject.

          5. 🙂
            No worries, mate.

            —–
            It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
            It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

            Red Pill Junkie

          6. Discussing
            [quote=RonB]”Quote of the Day:
            RE: RPJ,

            True. But none of the issues you mention have genocide and racism involved in them. They are not issues that have been used for hate mongering.

            The issue of holocost denial is 99% an issue of incorrect knowledge or pretend knowledge. So much of the issue is documented for certainty that it is illegal in certain governments to claim it is not true.
            [/quote]

            Being myself German, I am not overly glad about the illegality because it leads to absurd legal decisions. The law in question not only prohibits the denial, but also
            approval and belittling.

            Example: Trutz Hardo who calls himself reincarnation therapeutist has found an easy solution for victims
            being treated injustly: They were unjust in their former
            lives. Guess what example he also used to make his point ?
            Repugnant und self-serving “blaming the victim” behavior,
            but it is illegal ? He did NOT denied the holocaust, but
            he was convicted by the law to pay a fine because he belittled the holocaust.
            If he used instead any other genocide, I doubt anyone on the law would have cared.

            Second: The Nazi Horst Mahler tried to travel to the Teheran Holocaust conference. The state revoked his passport
            because “he could befoul the reputation of Germany”.
            Well, UK und USA, since I know you have/had Bobby Fischer
            und David Irving I can’t like you anymore.

            [quote=RonB]
            If an article comes up asking the question if african americans are less intelligent than anglo americans, should we grab that article here and discuss it? It has clearly been proven to be a falsehood and it brings with it hate and racism. What’s the value of the discussion?
            [/quote]

            “Statistical measurements have proven that Massai are much taller in general than Inuit. Therefore Massai are superior
            people.”

            Sounds ridiculous, isn’t it ? So why this ruckus about
            differences in intelligence ? First of all, it is not a falsehood that white people are consistently better in solving intelligence tests. But Asians and Orthodox Jews
            are even better than whites, so why does the debate center
            on the difference black-white ? The real reason is the
            tainted history of slavery and suppression.

            Second, what does the intelligence value *mean* ? That an
            orthodox jew living in a peaceful culture which appraises
            intelligence and education is better able to solve a test
            than black people living in poverty and violence hanging
            before a television ? Big surprise.

            If you try to refute racism by claiming that there is no difference between human cultures, you are actually falling
            in the racism trap because you are *accepting* the premise
            that differences would in fact matter !

            If I claim that I am more valuable than someone with Down’s
            Syndrome because I am testable smarter than him, do you try
            to claim that I am in fact not smarter than him ? Or do you
            point out a much more sinister flaw in my logic ?

            [quote=RonB]
            Look I’m not saying that we should censor topics, but I would like someone from Daily Grail to at least comment on the link, the quote of the day for this day, and our comments. I don’t like Holocaust Denial for many reasons and if we’re going to be discussing it here then I have a lot to say about it.
            [/quote]

            I think there are already enough here who pointed out that they don’t like the link and certainly don’t like Holocaust
            denial. But our options are limited by the medium: We can insult, ridicule and ignore posters, but I think many here
            have actually experienced these tactics by cynics and are
            reluctant to use it even in this case. Mind you, this is
            a fringe site.
            But I appreciate if we would remove the link until Janeske
            appears here and defend his decision for linking to it.

          7. RE: Thorsten
            “If you try to refute racism by claiming that there is no difference between human cultures, you are actually falling in the racism trap because you are *accepting* the premise that differences would in fact matter!”

            I totally agree with you. I think the real issue is that society has boiled down issues into very simple terms so that they can be argued very simply. What I think most people call racism is really a highlighting of something that is different in one group versus another. It’s the demonizing of a group. So while it’s called racism today, it’s really what has happened many times before; us versus them.

            The bottom line is that what I’m really against is anyone hiding behind any concept in order to vent their misplaced hatred. Let them deal with their issues directly instead of pretending that there are important things like skin color, cultural differences, or even intelligence (if there is such a benchmark) that matter so much. But to direct misplaced hate into hating a race so much that it will find any way to tarnish them, including claiming that there wasn’t a genocide of millions of people, is not a skeptical issue to be discussed for me. It’s not even a clever way to hide hate. It’s obvious and I don’t buy into it at all. I’m not going to debate an issue that is really driven by hate of a culture or a race. It’s beyond stupid, it’s moronic.

            On the topic of having a government declare a topic as illegal, I totally see the silliness of it. I understand why they did it, but as you said it leads to absurd legal decisions. I just think that there was so much demonizing done for so many years that it was clear that the brainwashing had done a lot of damage, and that without some clear rule, reality might not be set straight. Even in this day and age, there are those who maintain the holocaust did not occur, I know it sounds crazy. Well at least that’s my opinion.

          8. Defend the link? I dont
            Defend the link? I dont defend it. What the video contends is either true or false. There are other videos on that website to look at and reflect upon. I honestly do not know what is true or false. I found it news to me and interesting. What is true or false is for you to determine.

            I will not remove the link. But you are welcome to ask others to do so.

          9. “Defense”
            [quote=Jameske]
            Defend the link? I dont defend it. What the video contends is either true or false. There are other videos on that website to look at and reflect upon. I honestly do not know what is true or false. I found it news to me and interesting. What is true or false is for you to determine.
            [/quote]

            Imagine I will link to a site which will state that Jameske is believing that supporting the banks is a wrong decision of the government. This statement, even if false, will probably interest noone.
            Next: this link states that you are believing in Reichsflugscheiben or an Illuminati world conspiracy. This statement *can* already damage your reputation.
            Now I am linking to a site that states that you are a well-known paedophile. Totally flabbergasted and shocked you are asking me why I did this and I answer: “Well, I am only linking to it. I honestly do not know if you are an paedophile. What is true and false is for you to determine.”

            Would you accept this “defense” or would you think that I am a repugnant asshole for doing this ? Moreover you can sue me for slandering and the judge won’t accept your defense either. A further problem is: If a newspaper did this and print a full page apology admitting an error, there will be *still* people who won’t believe in your innocence; your life can be ruined.

            If you deny the Holocaust, you are not only tackling a historical academic question, you are stating that millions of victims of the Holocaust are actually *lying* ! Do you comprehend this ?

            So if you know that people can and would be hurt by something you state or report, the one and only defense not acting like a complete ignorant jerk is finding out the truth. And *that* means that you are doing your homework: Finding out what actually is claimed, find out the sources, the statements, all in all the evidence and claim only that which you can defend.

            Ignorance is no excuse.

          10. Fixing the Machine
            Indeed, some people can try to make JamesKe responsible for their own feelings and worldview. It is much more difficult to examine where those feelings and worldview comes from.

            Maybe that is why daytime TV is so popular :3

      2. Some remarks
        [quote=FirstBorn]
        Hello,
        First up i don’t hate jews, i talked about zionists,
        [/quote]

        Well, then be careful with your definition. A zionist is someone who supports that Jews are rebuilding Israel and I suppose that you especially include those who approve force. They can be liberal jews, orthodox jews or even Christs/Muslims.

        [quote=FirstBorn]
        and yes i consider The Talmud a demonic scripture, very different in nature as the Torah, who’s followers btw-that is real Jews, hate the zionists likely even more then i do, because it’s is they that suffer the backlash of zionists crimes first.
        [/quote]
        The Talmud is mostly important for orthodox and fundamentalistic jews, not for liberal ones. So while believing in the Talmud and Zionism often comes together, they are *not* interchangeable: the Neturei Karta, an ultra-orthodox jewish group vehemently opposes Zionism.
        But it is totally irrelevant if the Holocaust happened or not.

        [quote=FirstBorn]
        As for Hitler, sigh it’s unfortunately not common knowledge, though i’m sure he knew, that his grandfather was a Rothchild’s bastard, as his 13 year old greatgrandmother served as a maid in the Vienna Rothchild’s household, and we’ve all heard how agreeable young flesh is to rich old men, not to mention the Talmud practically prescribes it.
        [/quote]

        Well, it is fortunately not known because it’s false. The Rothschild claim which is explicitly called a rumor comes from the war report “The Mind of Hitler” of Arthur C. Langer. The correct Jewish candidate was a alleged Frankenberger living in Graz (not Vienna). A good overview is the english wikipedia entry on Alois Hitler. The paternal
        grandfather is still not exactly known, but according to genetic analysis a Hiedler, not a Jew.

        But again, this is totally irrelevant if the Holocaust happened or not.

  6. The Damned Thing
    If I’m not aware of my own disgust at something, at the mechanisms I participate in having that feeling and am attached to that feeling (thinking of it as ‘real’), then I can call it “BLASPHEMY!” and hope that I am around like-minded thinkers who will then agree with me. Thereby totally not having to deal with any role I have in the feeling’s (and the subject’s) creation.

    That’s how ideologies work, how P.C. works, how Hate Crime legislation works, how fascism works, how organized religion works.

    1. Thingy
      If a subject has no self-image which models a certain distancing from primary emotions and deduce from that that all subjects must hide the conflict between assumed self and real self instead having a certain amount of empathy, it must come to the fallacy that signs of negated affinity
      are based on its own assumptions. Furthermore it builds up a reductionistic worldview mapping the cause to many
      symptoms to exactly the same reason.

      Especially if the subject accuses other subjects of imposing other woldviews on the subjects worldview, this is a clear case of cognitive dissonance.

      1. The care and feeding of B.S. (Belief Systems)
        When people learn how to grok their B.S. with fullness, then they are more free to fool around with that B.S.

        And even try on other B.S. to see what becomes ‘tuned-in’ (True) and ‘not tuned-in’ (Blasphemy).

        Instead of continuing to be intimidated and hypnotized by their B.S., it becomes a choice. Then such things as hate literature lose their power…advertising loses its power…PM campaigns lose their power…

        I know it is hard taking full responsibility for one’s role in the creation of reality — I think it can be fairly said that one of the main struggles of civilization is between giving up some of one’s responsibility to Authority figures and taking responsibility for one’s own actions, feelings, and thoughts.

        1. responsibilty……..
          taking full responsibilty of one’s role in creation of this reality is really a simple matter. First understand that every choice and action you make will effect others. A negative action e.g.effecting others lives negatively, will effect your self negatively. So if all thoughts and then choices and finally actions are directed in a positive manner to inhance others then the effect to yourself will be positive. The reality created when this simple plan is followed is one of joy and harmony for all. Prosterity aswell.
          Remember that all is created by thought so keep your thoughts in the higher vibration of love and kindness. Your life will only improve this way.
          I agree totally with your post inannawhimsey but thought I might shed some simple light on this.
          Asfar as things effecting you, they only will if you let them……your choice.

          “Life can be whatever you want it to be, as long as you do what your told.”
          LRF.

          1. related thought
            Something that is only tangentially related to this.

            I find that when I am sort of nice to people, then people are sort of nice to me. They buy me a cup of coffee, give me diretions, that sort of thing.

            The interesting part is that they are not the same people.

            You get the small favours back, but not from the people you gave the small favours to.

            —
            It is not how fast you go
            it is when you get there.

          2. that is completely….
            …related, this is exactly how the law of attraction works.(sorry to use that term). You think kindness and act kindness with real emotional intent behind the thoughts and actions you get that back from all angles whether related to the action or not.
            It’s like laughter…….contagious.

            “Life can be whatever you want it to be, as long as you do what your told.”
            LRF.

          3. being a self-writing poem
            “…Arlen had a conversation with Tim, in which she expressed gratitude for the example he had given us during the last three years of his confinement. ‘You convinced us that it is possible to transcend suffering’ she said…

            Tim said, ‘That’s the whole point of all my work on brain change!’ He hugged her excitedly. ‘That’s it! You’ve got it! Positive energy is as real as gravity. I’ve felt it’

            Two hours later at the door, Tim was stopped by one of our guests with a final question before he left.

            ‘What do you do, Dr Leary, when somebody keeps giving you negative energy?’

            Tim grinned that special grin of his that so annoys all his critics. ‘Come back with all the positive energy you have’ he said.

            –from Cosmic Trigger Volume I by RAW

  7. know thy enemy…..Buchenwald
    thanks for the link jameske. I’m sure all good thinkers would appreciate to know what the other side of the argument are getting up to.
    It’s all a game of programing, the weak minded are programed and the strong minded understand and know the truth. Eventually the truth wins out. Searching out, linking to and exposing all views from every angle is important in understanding where people gain their thought and beliefs.

    “Life can be whatever you want it to be, as long as you do what your told.”
    LRF.

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