I personally haven't seen anything convincing. At this point, the subject has become so murky I'm not sure if anyone would recognize the truth. Maybe that's intentional. I haven't read Redfern's book, but it sounds intriguing.
I don't know (assuming something did crash at Roswell). Even if nothing crashed at Roswell, the Mystery survives.
Feel the Mystery
I was always unsure till I saw that Futurama episode where Benders body was thought to be the UFO and Dr Zoidberg was captured by the US army. lol
Seriously though... It's quite possible it could have been the failed results of a secret military test of some new solar technology for the time.
I've been hearing about Roswell for over 50 years. There isn't enough solid evidence to prove anything. So, in my case, "OTHER" means that I don't know. But, any of the above are possible.
I voted other because it is such a commercial hype that has never been proven with substantiated evidence. And what got me into hysterics was the Autospy fim, I knew the producer in England, it was a bunch of crap....You can even look at the footage and tell that it was all staged...and the eyeballs when they slice the layer of black off, and they gut her brain on TV but do not show her reproductive organs? I mean come on, OH another thing, they could not find the camera man who really took the original footage....Bull....that was marketing jive and suspense........
I should find the old article I wrote about it. " Dora, the Crash Test Dummy."
Dr. Colette M. Dowell ND
Moving Forward Publications
actually the film was a briliant piece of missinformation.
Worked perfectly in your case.
The best place to hide a tree is in the forest!
I couldn't agree more.
This is how disinformation works. Truth sandwiched between lies.
Think reverse psychology. This film had elements of cultivated purposeful fraud, but in fact, surprising as it may seem, the actual "alien" was very likely an authentic grey-hybrid, not the propaganda comic book grey of Streiber. Wonder why that "alien" is now so firmly entrenched in Pop culture...?
Of course it was US experimental aircaft. Consider this: if the US had F117 stealth fighters in the early 1970s, then what do they have now? One's imagination does not have to deviate far to imagine the possibilities. F117s are 1970 technologies, imagine what is possible now?
What did the US learn from German Rocket Scientists post 1945??
Roswell was 1947. A long time befor 1970.
They have been back-engineering for a long time now, thats where the tech came from.the TR-38(this may not be the exact numbering) is a perfect example.
The Germans had access to an alien craft that crashed and they had a sudden jump in tech near the end of the war.(foo fighters, as they were known , were very common to the alied airmen dueing the second world war).The Russians new of this and so did the allies. Hence that amazing end to the war where there was a face down between Russia and the allies in Berlin.Why do you think two allies would end up opposing each other. ....The prize was very big.
Start of the COLD war. And the great sientist GRAB.
If the real knowledge was to be set free.....then the controlling interests in the world would lose their power base.
The clandestine organisation that controls the world's economics knows that it's only a short time to exist. Hence the crazy economics and money grabing policies of large corperates you see today. In a short while it will all come crashing down with total discloser. Then a new economic system will have to be put in place.
In the mean time the one's in the know have raped as much money as they can to give themselves a chance at some power in the new economic world.
So take some solace in the fact that aliens do exist and they watch and partake in our lives every day. The god of israel was a mere third or forth commander of a much greater alien presence on earth 4500 years ago.
But there is a creator. But i'm sorry....it will not intervene in anything.
Only we have the choice of survival or exstinction.
For our own sakes.......don't be so egotistical to think we are the only one's. A GOD would not creat a universe so vaste and put it's only creation on such a small insinificant planet and then say.....all this is yours....if the stars were created to give us comfort at night...then why are there so many we are just finding now.
Truely the universe is multi-layered and also other universes.
We are a part of a great whole. I look forward to the time when conciousness allows us to connect to many other beings.
You are insulting the creativity of many human engineers. Can you not imagine someone coming up with a new idea?
People invent things, we don't need to be given stuff by aliens.
We have amazing engineers. our engineers are so good they can take a bit of alien tech that means nothing to us and work out what it does and how it works.
Think about this...if you were born in 16th centuary and was given a transitor radio...what would you do with it. Chances are you would bust it up. Luckily we have incredible minds here who have the for-thought to think that an object that means nothing to us could have a significant purpose.
Hopfully you may concider a bit more thought to your comments in the future befor stamping on the ant, so to speak.
Have you ever wondered why we had horse and cart for 3 maybe 4 thousand years.....then out of the blue....a car....then within 110years we are now. Thats a massive amount of tech evolution in a very short while.
How many engineers do you know? I have worked with lots of them, and I am one myself. I understand what we developed, why and how it works. Some of this is at the very leading edge of technology. So I know how many alien artifacts where involved in this - not even one. This of course does not prove that artifacts don't exist, I'm not arguing that. I just don't agree that our engineers only copy things, having first hand experience that they do things themselves, and having done many things myself as well. Without any help from aliens or artifacts.
fortunatly for you my modest outlook on life denies me the satisfaction of embarressing you with a list of qualifications, how ever I will say to you that I do not deny the magnitude of wonderful inventions and tech achievements of our fellow engineers over this short period of advancement. But there is small yet key significant roll that back-engineered tech has played in the tidal wave of technical evolution we are exsperiencing now.
yes there is evidence of this I could share with you. But it's more inlightening for you to find it yourself.
Don't forget to question anything that you FEEL to be remotely dubious in origin.
I'm sure your much qualified and acedemic mind can still work closely with your spiritual being to clearly see the truth in these matters.
The first thing I question is whether you have any evidence for this whatsoever. Speculation is not evidence.
Is there something that can be idendified which could not have been done without back-engineering? You or I not understanding a particular development or invention is not proof that it is impossible, or even difficult.
as someone who holds no qualifications (except that massage cert) i can confidently say that a pretty cursory knowledge of history that even a lowly student of history as i can summon forth indicates humans are entirely capable of creating our present state of technologic advancement. I suppose aliens invented the wheel, too.
Think of it this way - if aliens were intervening on an everyday basis with humanity for our continual advancement and universal consciousness enlightenment stuff, why did they start by 'enlightening' our planet with the internal combustion engine - something which has since created (aside from all the great stuff we get from international trade) the greenhouse effect, a load of wars, both secret and overt to secure world oil resources and the general impoverishment of a few billion underprivileged people in Africa, South America. If that's their idea of help, then i think we're better off alone, thanks so much. But of course, it's nothing to do with them, if they existed and cared their behaviour would doubtless be different from ours, but surely the only purpose to that kind of idiocy is to terra-form our planet for their eventual takeover. personally i think that's just bs - it's a cool dream and everything, i'd like to believe in aliens, but if their actually real, then, well i'm sorry, they operate like a very poorly scripted low budget hollywood flop-buster.
Well floppy2, what a story... I haven't read an epic like that in years! Small wonder you were keeping your sources to yourself! I enjoyed the part about the aircraft carrier and killer submarines protecting the Antartic base in 1938... but never saw where or when the ufo crashed that the nazis back engineered. My favourite part was Eva Braun and Martin Borman flying off together to the land that time forgot in Antartica in a UFO... leaving Goring and Hess etc to face the tribunal at Nuremberg. I had no idea anyone believed in this kind of story though I do believe it is your right to believe it if you want to, just don't present it to others as fact and we'll all get along so much easier!
how about I give you my personal e-mail address and we can continue this game in private.........or is it the audience you desire????
DISCLAIMER:the opinions and veiws in this post are mine only and do not nesessarily reflect those of others.
whatever your game is, best keep it above board. your advice was to challange anything that felt dubious, thats why I asked you for your sources for this crashed ufo in Germany. I'm not looking for an audience just some explanations for your very strange statements!
god is an insufferable liar - he says he loves everyone, yet the meek still haven't inherited any more of the earth than the days when Yeshua walked the earth - will we wait until the sun explodes before we abandon the idea of a god that gives a fuck?
i mean, i've read the literature and all, "who was Hiram Abif" and "Hamlet's Mill" and all that but i still see no room for a god that is genuinely interested in anything but his own big sticky arse-hole, which he refuses to admit stinks just like the rest of ours, and the way of course he choose to represent his omnipotent will is through child molesting cross-dressers (what else do you call someone who kits about in a dress and a giant pointy hat all day and night?)
still that's pretty off topic, i suppose this'll just get chopped out anyhoo ... ack thppt (bill lives)
Can you tell us where and when this ufo crashed in Nazi Germany? Which team was working on it? Who was in command? Where were they based and when? There were a lot of "secret weapons" developed by the Germans but the so called "Foo Fighters" you mention were not one of them... their pilots saw them too and did not know what they were. Most likely explanation, ball lightning.
"Foo Fighters" did not attack any aircraft, they were simply observed. My history books do not tell of an amazing end to the war with the victorious allies having a face off in Berlin... Berlin was left for the Russians and it cost them dear in terms of casualties. The other allies did not participate in the battle for Berlin at all. The cold war in fact, started a little later!
The grabbing of scientists, as you put it, came long before the cold war, it started as soon as the allies entered Germany. Both scientists and technology were taken, tested and reviewed and in many cases the research continued in the USA, GB and USSR. I have never heard of any reliable documents that mentions the crash of an alien spacecraft as being the source of German secret Weapons. Please inform us of your sources. UGV v S
hi E v S, the ufo crash in germany i'm afraid can only be called speculation at this point. But there is some information available about certain german offices and scientist who disappeared to south america and maybe even antartica.
Foo fighters as ball lightning could be possible if you could explain how it can fly parralel to bomber formation and hover in mid air over dog fights in clear skies.
I have an uncle who was a hurricane pilot in ww2 and I bumped into him at Caloundra 20 years ago when he was having a reunion with some of his war mates. We talked for hours and they all told me how at the end of the war the Russians massed a great force after Berlin was sercured and were going to keep moving west and south. So every morning and afternoon the canadians and british would put every available plane in the air and buzz the russian troops until an agreement was made. You won't read this in any history books.
But it did happen.
Those Russian troops, and the bit about South America and Antartica are related to this UFO business?
....is that those who were there can tell you far more than history books ever could.
I have a friend who was in the Airforce during WW2 and everytime he and his crew who were in training in NQ flew over a certain area their instruments stopped working.
They were all questioned singly and told not to mention it to anyone and to change their flight path.
He told me he still has the log book with the entry he made at the time.
This never made it into the news but it really happened to real people.
Still, that does not answer my question (and I would not presume to ask you to answer for him), I was wondering what that has to do with the original question he was asked. If anything.
People tell many stories of events that are not in history books, about wartime more than usual. That's to be expected, more happens in wartime.
Some of those stories are true, some grow in the telling, some are imagined. A lot of them are entertaining, I have heard a few.
govenments are controlled and manipulated by stronger powers. they always have been. it's in the best interest of these powers to keep the masses in ignorance as well as govenments. the manipulation is very subtle and can be detected if you choose to view the power play from a wholistic global perspective. but you need to have at least a small insight into the reason and direction of the manipulation.
i can't prove alien crashes as much as you could disprove them.
what i do know for certain is the existance of back-engineering.
now i may not have physical proof to give to you, but that is irrelivent to me.
as long as i believe it to be true, than i'm happy with that.
So if I understand you correctly, you don't know where or when this ufo crashed, who worked on reverse-engineering it, who was in command or where they did their work developing the new weapons... is this your speculation or did you discover this from somewhere else? What information do you have regarding the German officers and scientists who fled to south America and/or Antartica? Are these sources reliable? You have built up a big event on this speculation and it would be nice to see what you are using as evidence.
I lived and worked in Germany for some years and never heard of any ufo crash in my time there or indeed in any historical publication.
All secret weapons in Germany have a history, they did not just suddenly appear. There is a paper trail that can be followed, times and dates, supplies and workers, engineers and officers can all be followed along with the orders from various armed forces commanders and of course, Albert Speer.
Many of the other promising weapons were ignored for several reasons including the fact they would not be ready in time to affect the outcome of the war.... and of course, so much effort was being put into V weapon program.
The "Foo Fighters" you speak of fought nobody, whatever they were they were seen by allied and nazi pilots alike...butthey attacked no one.
The cold war did not start because the Russians wanted the technology that came with the possible crash of an alien spacecraft as you are speculating. Nor was there a "face off " in Berlin at the end of the war... only German and Russian forces fought that battle. Western troops were not involved at all. Though there was some sabre rattling by both sides shortly after the war ended it should be remembered that the US had the atomic bomb ready to use by the time of the Potsdam conference. Stalin knew of this already, from his spies. By the time the cold war really started Germany had been defeated and divided for a couple of years.
i didn't come to this site to banter back and forth.
if you had read my post more accuatly you would understand a bit better. i never said anywhere that foo fighters attacked. they observed. i never said british and american troops were fighting in berlin. i never said all of german tech was back engineered.
but the stand off in berlin was a catylist for the beginning of the cold war.this is when russia closed it's borders more tightly and consentrated on preperring a stronger defence.
now i'm sure you have google.try a little research of your own.
Getting a little hot under the collar, floppy2?
You must expect a bit of bantering back and forth when you make such sensational statements,or did you think we would all accept it without question?
I read your post and found it wanting, thats why I asked you a whole series of questions, most of which you've avoided answering!
However you have admitted that the ufo and the back engineering of this alien craft is nothing more than speculation. No doubt the officers and scientists in south America and Antartica are also speculation. Now you speculate "foo fighters" are observers but do not say who they are observing for. You've also speculated that Stalin started the cold war to get this technology, even though you're only speculating that it ever existed.
Check out the Berlin airlift.. Stalin closed the borders to Berlin just as you say but that was in 1948. That was years after the war had ended and with most of the scientists and any recoverable material and data long gone.
Somehow I'm reminded of a phrase from Spike Milligan..." You're making it up!"
your either young or arrogant, I answered all your questions.
Take from it what you will.
It's not hard to type the word...GOOGLE...in your web browser.
Iv'e been bated by the best....and I assure you, you don't measure up to them.
Have a nice day.
Sad to say, but you have not answered the vast majority of the direct questions I have asked you regarding the statements you have made. You refer to google again.. it is not an answer!
I am neither young nor arrogant.... just trying to get you to explain yourself. You must have something to back up your statements, surely? And we haven't even got close to the wilder part of your posting.... the god of israel being an alien commander!
Have a wonderful 4th of July!
why should floppy have a wonderful 4th of July, he is an Aussie, he doesn't care about the 4th of July.
I think someone should be allowed to post an opinion here without someone else screaming at them for proof.
Can you prove that floppy is wrong?
I would like you to prove to me that the god of Israel was not an alien commander.
In his short reply, floppy2 wished me a good day, I in turn wished him a happy 4th of July... no need to read anymore into it than that. It is good that you continue to stick up for your comrade but I'm sure he must be used to doing that for himself by now. He started to talk about a ufo crash in Germany from which it was implied the Germans back engineered alien technology... he did not say at the time he was merely speculating.... in fact he sounded very positive about it so I simply asked where he got the imformation from. No screaming has been heard from me, just some questions. So far his anwsers are "speculation" and "google" and as I said before, we haven't got to his wilder statements of the god of israel being a ufo commander yet.
As for me proving the god of israel was not an alien commander, I haven't asked floppy2 to prove that part, we both know a negative like that is a little tricky to prove... Lets wait and hear how came to that conclusion in the first place!
At least you can read between lines and see understanding in others opinions without harrassment.
I don't need to prove anything to anyone.
I will give my opinion of what I may believe.
If people don't agree then all they need to say is just that.
If they wish to verify anything then they can go ahead. I'm not stopping anyone from their own research.
My opinions and my beliefs are based on my own research.
I have never, nor will ever try to force anyone to proove to me why they believe what they do.
In this case above, I believe I have answered all the questions as best as I can.
If they choose not to understand that then there is nothing I can do.
I am proud to be an Australian in a yet to be totally censored country.
The 4th of July is important to me because it means one more day closer to my birthday.....which is very exciting to my kids rather then me....that gives me great pleasure.
thanks again shadows...kindest thoughts..floppy.
i don't consider anything earthling has said as harassment myself - but it's interesting that you've responded so defensively to a simple question time after time, as if offended at the mere exchange.
i actually thought the idea was to exchange ideas, not present your own opinions as if they are incontrovertible fact. earthling never asked for proof anyway, just something to back up what you're saying, ie in laymen's terms, a website to which you could refer that would indicate the source of your powerfully held belief in something so utterly ethereal in nature. no-one can prove such statements, obviously, but a bit of literature wouldn't kill you - most people are keen to provide a bibliography of their sources, but you seem offended by someone wanting to discuss ideas you raised.
as someone who worked for an Australian media company, rehame, i can only gather from your posts that you are indulging in a little stonewalling and tedious verbal mis-direction and deliberate misinterpretation of the questions being presented so as to distract from your totally non-existent sources for your stream of consciousness twaddle
i'm an aussie too, cobba, and by the way this country has no constitutional protection of artistic expression, religion or free speach and it never has. oh, btw, i got that from a recent radio national program (1224 am) and my tutoring in media law at Curtin University in Perth ;-) that's what you call refering to your source. if you'd ever put in a paper at university you'd know you need to reference everything you write, so it surprises me that one minute you're claiming to have ineffably sublime 'qualifications' and the next you're giving google as your bibliographic reference ... ingenuousness methinks. still, as you've said, you don't have to 'proove' your beliefs to anyone - not that anyone ever asked you to.
and finally, as for 'reading between the lines' well, some of us actually like to communicate our ideas to other sentient beings, not nebulousness off-the-wall theory-on-the-run
I don't know if anyone ever explained the difference to you between education and intelligence.
The two most stupid people I know have 3 PhDs between them.I think they are stupid because they do not know how to adequately care for their children nor how to even keep themselves clean.
It's called having too many marbles of one colour and not enough of all the other colours.
Bully for you with your qualifications.
It's a pity you did not pick up some manners and a little commonsense along the way.
Floppy has explained to you his reasons for his beliefs and no one is obliged to do more than that.He has posted links for your edification.
Now it is up to you to prove him wrong.
And if you can do that without posturing and looking down your nose at another human being we would be grateful.
ahhh sweet shadow, your surport is greatly appreciated.
I can however surport myself but in the best interest of this site that we do together watch each others back against the insurgence of trivial behavior.
sea mom....i kan spull sum wards goodly....
We Aussies spell "cobba" cobber.
if you had to learn that we have no consitutional rights from the radio and university......hmmmmm. that says heaps.
Lets all get back to a civil dicussion shell we.
All I have to say is...WOW! I believe that humans, regardless of intelligence, education, or sanity, can create an internally consistent system of logic to support their own beliefs. But at some point, one needs to decide that either their own logic, or that which is accepted by consensus, is flawed...
Its actually very scary when you consider that every human being CREATES a system of logic to support a system of beliefs. The reason I say scary, is because the system of beliefs usually are imposed on the person during development. By default the mind has to find a way to cope with the imprint made, so it goes to work creating a tool to piece together this imposed greater purpose for living as quickly as it can on a very shakey system of checks and balances. The two varialbles there( logic and belief) are big ones to say the least. Leaders and builders of societies have been manipulating this formula since the dawn of man, and are still doing it now. Hense fanatics, radicals, terrorists, democrats, republicans, Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc. etc. The key to their success would be to insure that the cart procedes the horse. Make them believe first.
And of course as you say, one needs to decide FOR THEMSELVES, which is consistent with the world we live in and which is flawed thru myopia or other problems of self interest.
Anyway, your comment just struck me, thanks
I agree with you there Duke,
We are also brought to rationalize those conditioning factors to perpetuate their conditioning force against our ability to 'really see'. We would rather psychologically empirically understand because understanding is in agreement with our conditioning than we would want to 'know', which instead would require potential rejection of what we believed.
There are so many conflicting stories about the "Roswell Incident" that I really don't have a clue as to what happened. I'd like to beleive that it was an alian spacecraft, but then again my intuition says it was an experimental aircraft or mogul balloon(s). I don't trust any government to tell the "truth", but again there are many publicity seekers,nuts and just plain deceitful people that make up this worlds overpopulation.
"The Truth Is Out There"
it was me . ;-)
no, it was, i admit it, one of my mad scientist mind control experiments on the russians worked better than i expected and they accidentally ploughed one of their remote control disc vehicles in the desert ... well, it was a lucky thing for the spanks they did because that was the ultimate secret to antigravity and thankfully for them the ruskies are such vodka soaked imbeciles they gave the game away, so to speak, with their blunder. of course all the talk of little green men was just coded language among the local roswel pilots, who knew they were part of a counter-espionage move against the russians who were moving away from satellites and into flying disc research (ufos). of course it's a disgrace the military was so badly run that their own ufo crashed smack bang next to the roswell ufo research station - what the russian spies never guessed was the spanks had been researching a form of radio jamming that would bring the passing russian craft down. after that it's just a story of engineering the russian anti-gravity technology which was originally reverse engineered from crash landed alien spacecraft bured deep in the sediment beneath the arctic tundra. that craft is a one of it's kind, left over from a galactic war that raged near our planet eons before the coming of european whities. the war itself never reached our planet, but mars was for a long time considered a prime breeding ground for beings known as the necrinim, due to it's particular mix of elements near the core at the time. the necrinim were insectrovroid burrowing creatures that evolved in the darkest reaches of space where no galaxies exist . their planet haunted the black outer reaches of space for billions upon billions of years until they took a liking for the warmth generated by the suns of the inner solar systems of our galaxy. all systems on the edges of the galaxy were beset with the necrinim for a long time and even now the friendly type aliens make frequent bypasses of mars to ensure there are no traces of the nec still remaining. the necrinim are known to the aboriginal peoples of australia as the blorgons, whose war near mars with the other guys was recorded by their star mythology from ancient times. either way, the only way to surpass our knowledge of the roswell technology lays somewhere under the arctic tundra, and perhaps elsewhere on the planet.
of course, this is just bs i just made up in my peanut shaped head - my idea of entertainment.
no, it was me, really
i am a freak, but i liked the exercise in stream of consciousness raving
btw, i love your name, it's the bee's
In a peanut kind of way that was sort of amusing.
But what is really amusing is how a lot of people will consider your posts from now on...hehehehe
what's funny is you managed to send a whole post with no glaring spelling errors.
We do not make personal attacks on people's spelling in this forum as for many of them English is not their first language.
Please stop this ridiculous witch hunt or I will be forced to put an evil spell on you.
Why do I suspect that floppy and shadow are one and the same?
TDG09 theme is based on the original design by Michael Hutagalung. DG logo "icon" courtesy of @GrailSeeker.