What is the Holy Grail?

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numbphase's picture
Member since:
3 November 2004
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9 years 30 weeks

someone had to be the first

Anonymous's picture

the holy grail is the state of enlightenment, it negates animal instincts and is compassion unlimited-- no wonder the knights of the round table couln't find it with their lances and and excalibur type swords

Anonymous's picture

You are very close. The true "holy grail" is the transmission and passing on of a sacred practice. Those that learn it's true meaning and how to use it properly are few and far between.

We are born twice, once from the loins the other from the mind. Learn to separate the two and a state of enlightment will follow.

Holy Grail = Sacred Knowledge

Broker

Anonymous's picture

"True" for you, but in the case of the Holy Grail , as in so many other things, there isnt a truth that any of you have that should be accepted by all. It isnt a "fact" that your hypothesis is the truth, the only fact is that it is the truth for you. For now.

Anonymous's picture

Sometimes in our search for the "Truth" the "Facts" get distorted and the simplest answer can sometimes be the most difficult understand.

This is unfortunate, considering the enthusiasm ones sees in the quest for the "Holy Grail", that so few enthusiasts can be trusted to speak the "Truth" and that is a "Fact".

"I do not believe today everything I believed yesterday; I wonder will I believe tomorrow everything I believe today."

Broker

Anonymous's picture

No, that's so far from the truth it's laughable. The Holy Grail has never been referred to by anyone as an intanglible state of mind. Plus, seeing as how the Holy Grail is related to Jesus Christ, one must "know" that an enlightening practice would not be synonymous with his name. He stated that he was the way and the truth. Therein lies you enlightenment.

MikeyD06's picture
Member since:
20 January 2005
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9 years 30 weeks

To you I have one thing to say. All fiction came from some non fiction at one point in time, you cannot deny that fact. I agree with you in that you say the grail contains knowledge, but what about all the myths of bones of Mary Magdeline, geneology of Christ to the present day?

Anubis_the_Powerful's picture
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18 February 2005
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9 years 27 weeks

Holy Grail = Sangreal = Divine Chalice = Female Deity. The Womb would be considered the Cup Of Life according to Hebrew Language.

Anubis

Anonymous's picture

BS

Anonymous's picture

to werid gone back to to e bay site much more easy to understNAD

denzo's picture
Member since:
1 May 2004
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5 years 33 weeks

grail is the the big made little,above and below,yes and know

Anonymous's picture

Not being well-versed in mythology, I had to do a litte research on Bran's Cauldron:

Bran and the Grail Legends

The Cauldron of Rebirth

Then I thought, heck, this poll's gonna be here for at least a month, so why not start at the beginning:

The High History of the Holy Grail The introductory provenance of this manuscript is quite a read in itself.

Seeker1's picture
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5 May 2004
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IMHO, "Anonymous" has nailed it. (I normally don't like anonymous posters who often seem to hide their slander through anonymity, but occasionally the anonymous are the holders of the truth. I mean, just look at Primary Colors!)

The Grail, ladies and gentleman, is not an object, not a bloodline, not anything associated with Jesus, it is a MYTH. The Grail Romances are MYTHOLOGIES and are clearly based on earlier mythological tales, and in particular some of the Celtic ones this poster has mentioned. They have been Christianized but in the Fisher King and other figures you can see hints of earlier mythological tales.

IMHO, this is the best academic study of the Grail, suggesting that like many other myths, it might be linked to earlier forms of Indo-European RITUAL (she notes the connections between descriptions of the Grail Procession and rituals in cultures like the Scythians)::

From Ritual to Romance
http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/frr/

There is no question that despite their apparent overtly pious Christian content, the Church always remained somewhat "neutral" if not hostile to the Grail Romances. IMHO, it's because of both their links to pre-Christian mythology, medieval heresy, and the way in which they represent re-emergence of the Sacred Feminine...

So, if the Grail is a MYTH, does that mean it's not real? Well, only if you subscribe to the false dualism I've been condemning in my posts over and over again.

As a symbol, I think it does point to the transcendent reality that many posters here are suggesting.

Analyzed through euhemerist analysis, it could be based on real people and real events, and that's of interest, also.

As an allegory, I think most people have nailed it - the Quest for the Grail in all its forms, even the Monty Python retellings, is a search that Joseph Campbell called the Hero's Journey... and it is one we are on all the time, whether we are conscious of it or not.

Steven Mizrach
Academic, Pop Culture Junkie, Grail Recycler

Anonymous's picture

Hi Steve,

>>IMHO, "Anonymous" has nailed it.

I have to admit (somewhat sheepishly - hehe) that I had to reread my comment to figure out exactly where, in your opinion, I'd gone right, since, at the time I posted the comment, I didn't realize I was implying that I thought the grail was simply a myth. Actually, I voted 'other' because I thought there are just too many unknown (and probably unknowable) variables for a definitive answer. For instance...

>>Analyzed through euhemerist analysis, it could be based on real people and real events, and that's of interest, also.

If there was a spiritual avatar named Jesus, and if he performed those Biblically described rituals at a last supper, it seems reasonable that those in attendance might greatly value the ritual dish. And, If Jesus was crucified and wounded with a spear, his followers might use this dish to catch his literal blood also. (And if so, I wonder what they did with the blood.) And certainly, if this avatar was able to heal the sick, prophesy, bring the dead back to life, and bring himself back to life after his crucifixion, it's seems likely they would believe this dish also had magical powers, and would try to preserve it. That's a long string of ifs for anyone who doesn't take the story on faith. But as any open-minded person will have noticed, some very strange things do happen on this planet, so I wouldn't be surprised if this magical dish turns out to be real.

That said, my original implication -- that the story of the grail is a myth -- is the only fact we can be sure of. So thanks for the compliment. ;-)

>>I normally don't like anonymous posters who often seem to hide their slander through anonymity, but occasionally the anonymous are the holders of the truth. I mean, just look at Primary Colors!

Occasionally 'the anonymous' are also, as in this case, accidently anonymous. In this instance, I just forgot to sign my post. Sorry about that.

Kat

Seeker1's picture
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5 May 2004
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Actually, I was suggesting one should apply Euhemerist analysis to Fierfiez, Anfortas, and some of the other Arthurian characters.

Steven Mizrach
Academic, Pop Culture Junkie, Grail Recycler

Anonymous's picture

Hi Steve,
Could you explain what you mean?
I always enjoy your posts but sometimes, like now, have no idea what you are talking about.
Most of us who read this forum do not have your knowledge and expertise on this matter.
I can usually handle words on 2 syllables or on occasion even 3.

Thanks

shadows

Seeker1's picture
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5 May 2004
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http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionar...

Definition:
 
\Eu*hem"er*ism\n. [L. Euhemerus, Gr. ? a philosopher,
about 300 ?.]
The theory, held by Euhemerus, that the gods of mythology
were but deified mortals, and their deeds only the
amplification in imagination of human acts.

So, for Euhemerus, myths could contain history, but perhaps history that was exaggerated, distorted, or hyperbolized.

OK, so what I was trying to say is if we look at the Grail Romances, and apply Euhemerist analysis, perhaps we can find that some of the characters in the sagas might be based on actual people.

I think it's evident that some are obviously allegorical, such as Repanse de Schoye (Chosen Response). Kundrie in turn seems to be based on earlier mythological figures, as is Anfortas the Fisher King.

But Walter Stein, as but one example, suggested that perhaps 9th century history might provide the identities of some dramatis personae in the Grail Legends:
http://www.skylarkbooks.co.uk/Shop/media...

I was not suggesting we should bother looking for the actual cup at the Last Supper, or any serving dish or other vessel used to capture the blood from Christ's wounds. I still think that the Grail only later became a Christian relic.

Steven Mizrach
Academic, Pop Culture Junkie, Grail Recycler

Anonymous's picture

That's great Steve, thanks a lot.I am new to a lot of this stuff and this will be good for me to get into over the holidays.

shadows

TerminalIllusion's picture
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25 June 2005
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9 years 12 weeks

For me, the legacy of the Holy Grail represents a search for that in history through which the secrets of true gnosis are revealed. While an attempt to search for the _"Truth"_ is respectable, BELIEVING in the Truth of history (or any other sort) will get you nowhere but imprisoned in the doublespeak of the wicked... ahem....From what I've heard, Christianity, as practiced en masse, could be seen as a disgrace to Christ.

We should be cautious of both History and the Past. The Past - the notion of experiences which have come before the present moment, and History - that which we have somehow learned has come before personal experience. While both are to be learned from, the two should be viewed as two seperate ideas integrated into a personal reality constructed from language that comes nowhere near describing what is actually going on. To us, the past is just as much myth as reality, let alone history. Funny how meaning is only what we make it.

Getting back to the Real....er....Bloodline...er....Chalice....uh....Graal....What I'm not saying isn't that history is as real as myth, anyway (strike that, reverse it). SO WTF, don't we all know by now that we're being lied to from all sides, and being manipulated, and used as pawns for power in the name of Faith? Everyday, I attempt to resist all of what is constantly tearing me away from my own conscious experience, and don't always succeed.

Personally, I find the IDEA of the 'Holy Grail' to be far more significant than any physical object (even if it did exist). So what does the search for the 'Holy Grail' represent to me, now? The idea that the wisdom of Christ's life - the union and balance of humuns with nature and themselves, and the availability of the transcendent experience to ALL of humainity (don't we contain the eucharist?) through conscious awareness - has been misappropriated and concealed in the name of....BELIEF? Imagine the alternative....

...They showed me the world as I'd love to see it,
But don't take MY word for it...

CHEERS!

-Not sorry, just searching...616

pyramid's picture
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10 January 2005
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6 years 12 weeks

define Sacred Feminine please---

Sid Kangaroo's picture
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18 February 2005
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9 years 30 weeks

There are many examples. In sacred geometry it is represented by the Pistis Sophia(Spl.?). It is also known by the name of 'Patiens' i.e., the sacred femanine within all Nature.

The joining of the to parts of the stone AGENS & PATIENS is also an
alchmecial process, i.e., the completion of the Lion (MTH) and the
Rose of Jericho both represent a spiritual 'process' i.e., the Rose is
placed upon the Cross.

The 'Agens' is the active element in all Nature, fire, positive in
polarity, and male. It is the vertical line of the cross, and in
heraldry is red. The 'Patiens' is the passive element in all Nature,
water, negative in polarity, and female. It is the horizontal line of
the cross, and in heraldry is blue.

The Grail is a Sacred Vessel, the idea (Europe) probably of Celtic origin i.e., the sacred cauldron which contained a mixture of milk and honey(?). In old mystical texts Christ is the 'Stone' = LOVE. This has to do with the process where the two parts of the Lion (two Egyptian hieroglyphs) are joined together i.e., the HATY , the above joined to PEH the below. This represents the completed work in the secret places of the Lion.

Regards,
Sid

Sid Kangaroo's picture
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18 February 2005
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ref.: the two parts of the Lion: see page 128, of the book 'Rebel in the Soul' by Bika Reed.

MikeyD06's picture
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20 January 2005
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Thats a pretty bold thing to say you know? That the grail is just a MYTH. Many people devote their lives and much of their time to finding out precisely what the grail is and you think you can just tap into it that easy. You don't know what it is just as much as anyone else. Isn't all religion based around a faith, or a myth? Faith itself is a myth. There is no proof of anything, you take your beliefs and turn them into facts.

Anonymous's picture

The Grail is a metaphor relating to the acquiring of ease in all endeavors through self-subordination to Luciferian principles. It's a campaign poster.

Anonymous's picture

How did you arrive at this correct answer? Years of research? A few clues narrowing down the research would be helpful for those who still think Jesus was not a fictional character. I.e., Mary Magdalene is a metaphor for Semiramis/Isis, etc.

Anonymous's picture

Yes; years of research and mystical pursuits of my own.
As for the Magdalene and Jesus, I would suggest to anyone who finds truth above price to become familiar with the writings of Gerald Massey. There's also an apparent link to an ancient gnostic sect commonly referred to as the Nazorites, which, unknown to many, was a secret society of carpenters. Mourn their passing .....

russell bear's picture
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1 January 2005
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9 years 30 weeks

interesting stuff from your friend Massey

another one who believes ancient mythos is derived from astronomy
hast thou read of Hamlet's Mill?

...now, that's worth reading...

Anonymous's picture

so now there was no jesus?

Anonymous's picture

Sure there was ... The Jesus that Constantine and his minions created or, if you prefer, embrace the gnostic, intuitively accessed Christ and the REAL responsibility implied. You can't have it both ways.
I reject the first, aknowledge the other, and choose a different allegiance for myself. (The cynical and the fearful will both misidentify what I say.)

Anonymous's picture

something buried ((this and that)) pehaps someone buried in downslope near (then) forest - short a buried riddle and sis is a test ha ? so a one shot thingy ? richards face ? decomposed ? head ? neckle ? helmet and non of preceeding - go figure or dig - yup! - it doesnt suit with uncertain aproach. . . so another dumb nottelling ! a pc game ! kinda

earthling's picture
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Probably the closest is "a philosophical goal", but one which we will never find.

psychlonus's picture
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A political tool for the ancient Catholic church to use as an excuse to send armies to abolish dissidents and further imperialistic strategies. Basically like the current War on Terror or 9/11. Filthy Americans.

Anonymous's picture

Hi psychlonus,
If you remove the last phrase I aree with the rest of what you said.

shadows

AncientSkyMan's picture
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1 May 2004
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I agree with Shadows!

ASM

pyramid's picture
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ditto

Anonymous's picture

we're filthy, because we let bunches of poeple not unlike yourself overpopulate our beautiful land abuse it do and sell drugs then we support them when they're too lazy to get a job just so they can complain about being here. do us a favor stay where you are!

phredbull's picture
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10 July 2005
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9 years 9 weeks

Let me guess; these people of which you speak have darker skin than you? (And have the detestable custom of putting lime in their beer?)

Richard's picture
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1 May 2004
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10 weeks 6 days

Hello anonymous,

People in general are mentally lazy. In the West, they have allowed the development of a culture of the form, a culture of appearances and the populations are content with the look of things with no care for substance. We are not sold substance but concepts. Even the economy thrives on hot air.

If the people agree with the color of the cover, they will never look under it to see what it hides. The cover, so long as it fits with their cultural conditioning will do. This way, the individuals can in apparent safety cede their rights to their leaders.

Of course, efficient leaders are quite apt at filling up the under-cover and can always paint the proper cultural picture to decorate it. Often, the color of the cover will be a nice blend of the country's flag and its local predominating religious values.

Blind men leaders of blind men he said, would you not agree?

Anonymous's picture

(W)hol(e)y (G)Ra(el
3+3 = 33 = 8 (F).ace (2) (F).ace
+ + +
8 8 8

Root Heart Crown 3
Crown Heart Root 3

When one can no longer be "lead" that one activates the gold...in the reclaimation of molecular sovereignty. One that are two that are one. Two Knights upon a single "steed" riding upon the winds of
interdimensional frequency all the way HOME.

Anonymous's picture

You are in my thoughts...

Anonymous's picture

in (false=)3+3 preceeds (u go=)33 is &less 3&3
roots and arts are pictograms (speaking of romans for example:)
III+III IIIIII (they were good in engineering)
(izraeliansstars - cube at its top inside the sphere -- they told it has no connectivity as 3D 2D 1D selfpointer 0D out of the world - sphere)

Anonymous's picture

itsallabout what you & your dog can do for your country
(you let the dog out and the dog gives what the country needs)
Dan and doughnuts - 33

Anonymous's picture

I voted 'other' because I think it contains the secret of immortality.

Agreed this might be 'phılosophical' but it depends what you think is philosophical.

ALSO: I thought this would have been the first poll TDG ever had???
It was ??!!!??? Oh

Sıgned: Neanderthal - (still searching)

Anonymous's picture

It's the Dixie cup of destiny.

Richard's picture
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1 May 2004
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10 weeks 6 days

Can you elaborate on the relationship?

Anonymous's picture

23 skidoo

Sogoln's picture
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1 May 2004
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The image of the Grail as a chalice that holds the power to immortality, presented along the Roman spear that wounded the flank of the crucified Christ, is an obvious christianization of the anciant Celtic symbols of the inexhaustible immortality cauldron and the spear of the Tuatha Dé Danann.

But the immortality cauldron is neither a cauldron nor it revives the deads. Sorry.

If you read the old Irish "Tale of the Two Wisemen", you realize that before the Battle of Moytura, both the Tuatha Dé and the Formori dig a fountain in their fortified camps. In these fountains they pour medicinal herbs to heal the wounds of their warriors.

Thus the origin of the Grail is only a medicinal bath from the bronze age...

Quite funnily, one of its other avatars (through the Celt cauldron), is the famous "magic potion" prepared by the druid Getafix to give extraordinary strength (not far from immortality) to the Gauls in the Asterix comics (in 50 BC, i.e. about 83 years before the crucifixion)...

IBard's picture
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23 August 2006
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7 years 43 weeks

That, to me, seems like the most probable origin for the myth.
As most of us know Christianity had a habbit of converting not only people but local myths and rituals as they expanded.

But as to what the Grail means now.... To me it is all about the quest for discovery... the discovery of Truth or the self or any other intrinsic ideal ....

All i know now is that i know nothing...

.....and i'm not too sure about that either..

theosoph's picture
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1 May 2004
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The Holy Grail is the Ark of the Covenant. GRAL the other way round - a way in which Templars use to encode secret things (it seems) - reads LARG and could be connected with L'ARC and so with the Ark of the Covenant. This also connects the Templars, searching for the Ark of the Covenant, with the legend of the Holy Grail, or actually, the Holy CRA'L.
This idea is not mine, but I heard it on a conference at a lecture about the search of the Holy Grail.

Sincerely,

Theosophias

Anonymous's picture

Fact! The generally accepted meaning is that is given by the Cistercian chronicler Helinandus (d. about 1230), who, under the date of about 717, mentions of a vision, shown to a hermit concerning the dish used by Our Lord at the Last Supper, and about which the hermit then wrote a Latin book called "Gradale." "Now in French," so Helinandus informs us, "Gradalis or Gradale means a dish (scutella), wide and somewhat deep, in which costly viands are wont to be served to the rich in degrees (gradatim), one morsel after another in different rows.