Words and Religion - do we really understand what we say in our religious belief?

Words have always fascinated me, and the older I get the more I look at the dictionary, not just for spellings, but definitions and origins.

I was looking at an internet site yesterday and I saw some words which stood out to me. I realised that I had never questioned what certain words and phrases actually meant. The subject of the site is not that important, but the idea of words, used in communal prayer which children learn at their local religious building without the child ever questioning the meaning behind the words, was one that struck me most forcibly.

I was brought up as a Christian, so can only discuss that particular aspect, however, I feel sure there must be other similar words/phrases spoken by other religions that people say because they are taught to without truly understanding the depth of meaning behind the words.

For Christians, the Lord's Prayer is one that they must learn, and repeat every time they take part in a service and often other times too when they are feeling distraught, or contemplative. One part which has always been spoken by me as a child is now finally explained, but it took until yesterday, more than 50 years, for me to realise what I was saying.

It relates to the part, "Thy (God's) will be done, on Earth, as it is in Heaven". I have said the words many times, but never realised that this has the same meaning as another phrase I have learned over the years, "As above, so below".

Think about it. It is the same idea!

I have spoken both phrases at various times throughout my life, the Christian not very much recently as I have turned away from this religion, but when I have spoken the second phrase I have never registered in my mind that it means the same thing! Instead, I have been encouraged to compartmentalise this with other ideas related to New Age, Occult, etc. I have never tried to cross reference words, phrases, meanings, between two different spiritual ideas, and see if they actually are advocating the same thing.

I had already come to the conclusion that when Christians say, "Amen" at the end of a prayer, they are actually asking for the Egyptian God, Amun, to help them. They are calling on that God's name. Yes, there is one letter different and some people say, A-men encouraging a concept of All/Good Men. But that I believe is a later inference.

I'll admit I am more interested in the history of religion rather than the workings of a particular religion. I am not interested in learning another language unless I am going to use it every day, but I am interested in words and their history/origins. Clearly, I have adapted this attitude to religions as well.

I am not trying to belittle or diminish anyone's particular faith/belief in the orthodox religions. For many it is what is needed to help them survive in this world and I am not knocking that. But I do feel we should all be sure about what it is precisely we are saying/thinking/believing.

People don't like to cross reference/compare religions very much. Children are today expected to learn about other faiths, but not in a comparative or politicallly historical way.

Without true questioning of a faith/belief we are no better than automatons who only repeat by rote without meaning or understanding (wisdom) of what they are saying or doing. Some actions and thoughts will be understood but others if they are a bit obscure need to be researched in more depth and understood to a greater level before being pronounced publicly.

The above and below concept is clearly something that has been around a long time and in a few cases with alternative words has gained a slightly different definition, yet the reality is that they are united in on concept - what happens on Earth, around us and to us, will happen in the sky/space above us too.

Think carefully about this before decrying my interpretation. If you are still sure you understand exactly what you say then great, but if you are not sure, look into the matter further, and be prepared to cross reference and see if there have been other interpretations in the past or present.

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I agree

Most people repeat the formulas of their religion like mindless automatons, without actually USING their brain to intepret or give meaning to what comes out of their mouths. that's one of the things that made me walk away from the Catholic Church.

Another thing that bothers me about religion is how they also try to use words to ratiolanize certain things. For example, in the Catholic faith there's a deep worship towards the figures of the saints and the Virgin Mary, but technically that doesn't constitute an "adoration", because only Gods deserves to be adored; instead they use the term "veneration" to the prayers people make to ask the saints or the Virgin for favors or protection.

But really, is the sentiment any different? That's why it was so easy to induce the christian faith in the native peoples of America, they simply switched one stone idol for another, but people kept their ancient rituals of offering food and other things to their gods.

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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

words change

The meaning of words changes over time.

I don't know Arabic, but my guess is that Allah simple means "the god". Not like Jim the best god, or George the better god. Perhaps someone who knows old Arabic can inform us about this.

But there are simpler examples. To be "gay" used to mean to be happy, outgoing, partying. Now it means that you are a man who enjoys to have anal or oral sex with another man. As if heterosexual men cannot have fun with consenting heterosexual women.

So this change in the meaning of words is not just religion. Look at politics, they hijack language every day. If I go to my local restaurant, and I need change for my $20 bills, I just ask for Obama. And they know what I want.

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It is not how fast you go
it is when you get there.

LOL

Quote:

If I go to my local restaurant, and I need change for my $20 bills, I just ask for Obama. And they know what I want.

So true! :)

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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie

A Side Note!

Earthling,

The evolution in meaning and perception of the names of Gods can be rather interesting.

If my memory serves me correctly, YHWH seems to have begun as a storm god, and, with do disrespect intended to Muslem members of TDG, ALLAH was a god of both destruction and the harvest at different times. It's been about 26 years since I did this study. But, it was very interesting. You might try it in your free time.

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

You are right that the

You are right that the meanings of words do change as our lifestyle changes, however, even those changes should have some truth relating to the original meaning of the word, but they don't always follow the same rules of origin.

As for the meaning of the words for God, yes, there are many different words meaning God, depending upon the language and the religion. However, the purpose of the god has varied considerably, completely reversing its original intent sometimes. This has been demonstrated here in the posts very admirably. I would add that Hades was the God of the Underworld but he was not supposed to be a bad god. It was later Christian ideas that introduced the concept of Hades being related to the Devil/Satan/Lucifer. Even these last three were not all originally bad, either. Lucifer was an angel, the light bringer, before his so-called fall to Earth; even the devil is said in Revelations to be allowed 1000 years of reign on Earth before the Judgement Day arrives, 1000 years to rule in what way? Could it be mayhem? We are certainly having that sort of reign on Earth now!

As for my interpretation of the words related to religion, I find it interesting to see the way the evolution of words has arisen, and this includes within religion as well as other fields of human society.

Thanks for the responses. They have been interesting.

Carol A Noble

Before meaning

Here is an interesting review of some research done into the Hebrew alphabet which, to cut a long story short, points toward the Hebrew language (as used to write the bible) being a much more physical connection than the meaning given it later on.

"In 1986, Tenen realized the patterns he had found meant that the text of Genesis "literally folds itself up into a model which generates the letters in which it's written, and does so in such a way that you can read the text as a meditational dance. The Hebrew Bible can be seen as the template of creation. We should expect to find the same patterns in the Bible as we find in the real world," he says. "The ancients studied the patterns in the heavens-I began to think, 'What would happen if you could map the patterns of the temples of the heavens onto the temples of your mind?' The patterns in the Hebrew Bible are the same as those in the heavens; when you chant regularly you are weaving these patterns onto your mind, internalizing the patterns of the universe-stepping out of your skin to have an ego-death experience."

According to Tenen these gestures and the position of "The Light in the Meeting Tent" will yield these specific letters.

Tenen has explored history using his theories and has found the same pattern again and again. "For example," he says, "You find it in Rumi's poem describing the Sufi Round Dance, in the Philippine Wine Dance (where you hold a wine glass in your palm and rotate it above and below your shoulder-the old Cleopatra dance), in the Grail Legend material, in William Blake's poetry, the Celtic Odin stories, in the weaving and basketry of Amerindian peoples and, literally, in every culture the world has ever seen"

http://www.redicecreations.com/specialre...

I have also read that ancient sanscrit functioned in a similar way, to convey 'real' information, ie mathematical formula etc, as it's main purpose. The meaning of the words and sentences were secondary.

I suppose original languages were more useful conveying real information and i would also guess that the form of the language would be more physical eg, the letters would be similar to hand and body shapes, the sounds of the letters more 'musical'. But thats a guess!

Om !

Good Points!

Carol,

The evolution on words for god or other things is very interesting. But, in my opinion, what we are really talking about is the evolution of people's understanding of these words. And, this can give us great insights into cultural evolution. In the sense that we understand them today, the word Billy, as in Hill Billy, and Bully come from Scotland. In its origin, a billy was a good person, and a Hill Billy was a good person from the hills, highlands. Something that was Bully was good. But today, they have very negative meanings. I wonder what insights that can give us into our culture?

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

Definitions and meanings

Our use of words has changed over the centuries, and our understanding of old words is becoming lost. Through this we are losing the original sense of the word and find it impossible to look at past civiliations/societies and understand why they did things.

I have two volumes of a very old dictionary, the forerunner of the Webster's Dictionary. It is more than a dictionary, it is an encyclopaedia! The information is so detailed, and I find it interesting how meanings of words have changed.

Even with this dictionary there were words classed as "out of date", "no longer in use" etc.

This dictionary was created in the middle/late 19th century.

When I looked at the word "grail", and/or "holy grail', I found that there were more than one possible origin for the word grail. They mean different things too: a small pebble, or a book of Romish offices, are but two. Yet the words, "holy grail", are nowhere to be found within the dictionary, not under grail, or holy, or any other form for that matter. I then began to wonder if the idea of the words, holy grail, and the meaning of a cup which had held Christ's blood, was actually a more recent concept, trying toi obscure the idea that the grail could in any way be a book, or something different?

I know that the medieval period had the idea of the grail, but we still talk about these books being "romances", or fiction. Could it be that there was a book, possibly written by Merlin, which was the grail that Arthur sought? Just as possible as anything else.

As an aside, did you know that Da Vinci talked about the Romance language? Could it have been that the original grail romances were actually written in a different language in the beginning and then translated? If so, could it also be that the word "romance" has changed its meaning over the years? I will have to have check of this word in my old dictionaries when I get home.

Yes, words can change out of all context, and become completely opposite. We have to understand the language and culture as a whole to appreciate what is truly being indicated by language. Billy, Bully, Hill Billy, are words that have reversed their meaning. But why stop at that, just look at words such as "hole" and "whole" which sound the same but mean the exact opposite. Lead and Lead: the first meaning to lead others into something such as a battle; the second to mean the metal which is very heavy but has the least density. Unless you know the context in which this word is placed it is possible to misunderstand what is intended.

People talk about "spin" when referring to public relations statements/speeches and advertising goods, but it has become more than a slight change in emphasis and now has the connotation of meaning the complete reversal of the original definition. Not good I think, but fascinating none the less.

Carol A Noble

Words are limits

Words have much more impact on mentality than it appears.

Words are categories that conform to a convention that in turn conditions the perception of the universe.

No surprise here if politicians speak with slogans. And there are not many things that piss me more off than people who speak with slogans.