Hello,
This may be for fun, but, a serious observation in the male species.
Lately I have been stringing beads and working with jewelry findings. I have a little table set up in my library that is comfortable for me and I can scoot in and out of it. I use my ergonomic chair as it is difficult for me to sit. I also have my beads arranged so I can reach them and they are not too hard to handle. All of my lay out is designed for my comfort.
I have noticed this:
When ever a male has arrived at my home and I take them to my beads to show them what I have been up to, everyone on them has said, "What you need is a tray that has organizational bins in it and that swerves around so you can work very easily and everything is in order." Well, to me that is all well and fine, but, I do not want my beads all in little bins to have to pick up and play with to decide on a design. I look at every man who has said this to me and I think about their living conditions. Every one of them lives in a home with out a female and they have a very disorganized house. There is nothing in order and nothing so easy to get to in these fellow's home. Why is it they feel the need to tell me to organize my little table when it is perfect for me as it is now ( except I would like to have a larger one ) . I place my hands over the beads and feel them and play with them and then I place them into a pattern, I do not want to look at them in a bin all piled up and looking the same. I get better ideas when I see them blended together against one another, I get a better sense and feel of how they will look combined and how they interact with colors and motiffs - I have always done it this way........
OK, tell me this too----I have also had females in the library, none of them have commented on the organization part. All of them said basically this is a great little space and have picked up beads off the table and played with them, never mentioning ever about organization. I also know these ladies and their homes are very organized and attractive compared to the males who live in chaos and mostly filth. Why do males feel the need to talk about organization with others ( we must classify these males however- they belong in the group of highly intelligent ones - not dummies [so are they seeing patterns of sorts in their minds and needing to arrange them or what?] and the females belong to the higher intelligence family as well) and not practice the same principle for themselves? They are very different from the women in feeling the need to control the situation and that their advice is the answer to what ever ails me...well, I do not say anything to them except a simple, " I like it like this and it works for me. " Until the next male comes over to visit and we are down there yakking and looking at beads, and then here goes....,"You know what you need is an organization tray......." Aaaahhhhhh...do you understand what I am trying to convey? Any comments about this besides,"Men are from Mars and Women are form Venus." !!!!!!?????!!!!!
We can use this as an exercise for understanding male and female traits in the higher intelligence range of individuals and how their minds work.
C
Every Which Way But Loose...
Read Lubicz...he tells it like it is...Men utilize the Target means of organization. Where something lands becomes a benchmark in his mind. He lives life on the fly and is visually oriented to hunt and survive as quickly as possilbe. He is good on his feet and can kill from horseback. Yet, he also knows rational things and can create great and grand works of art. Organization is also part of his makeup. A man knows what he is doing until a woman gets in his way. He is nice, and will listen to her and perhaps do it her way...but he is inborn with the Target Method of organization...it is abstract in a way, but it works. If left alone he will know where something is even if it is hidden by what others discern as a forest...He will know exactly which tree to utilize for observation of his prey or enemy...or his girlfriend. Men are men. Let it ride...
Not about gender
I don't know if that sense of organization is necessarily a gender trait, but I think it's got more to do with which brain hemisphere you use the most.
Right-brain (creative) people are for instance very fond of chaos. My current boss learned long ago to stop complaining about the state of my desk.
"How can you work in such MESS?" He often shouted.
"It's not a mess" I camly replied, "It's a FRACTAL ORDER" :-)
So I would like to know what type of jobs or careers your male friends that have suggested the bead organizer have. Maybe they're financial consultants or IT engineers or something. Whatever they are I bet they probalby don't have a career in manual crafts. And yes, those people might still live in not-so-tidy homes, but it's not because they like it so much, rather than they prefer it to the work of putting the house in the order they actually would like to have. If they had a MAID, maybe things would be different! That's why executives have secretaries after all :-)
-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
What would a lesbian say ?
Hello Colette,
I wonder how many times did you or someone else had to crawl on the floor looking for beads that got bumped off accidentally ? Because that's what triggered the pre-empting solution, a tray. As for disorganised men living alone, well that which is rarely used gets discarded i guess. As it happens this is rather a lot, so maybe the answer is for those men to throw out everything they dont need aswell as minimize their living space. Spartan does it.
A matter of choice;
Intimidation, corruption and lies, or serenity, sharing and sincerity.
Fine furniture, trim working, tiles, block, --compromise
Hello,
I do have some beads in trays, the ones that are extras from the ones on the top of the table. I have trays and little Chinese bowls, things like that...everything does have its place actually. I just have a pile of different ones on the top to play with. Rarely do I have to pick one up from the floor as I have velvet under the beads and they do not roll so bad, most of the beads are decorative metallic ones, not all round glass tiny ones.
I thought that to be funny about not having manual jobs. Nope, a a a a a a (that is an alarm going off, you did not win )a a a a No 64 $ for you....but, you are correct to think toward the brain functions of the hemispheres for sure. -----------Actually, 2 men have jobs working with their hands, One is a fine furniture maker and the other a fine craftsman who builds homes (both of these men are very intelligent in design - they both almost said the same thing about a swivel tray and then a standing wrack that would have circular plates with trays on them and they can swing around to where I need them to be to pick up my beads..........The other man is a chef........he says he designs his food on his place and works with color arrangements with his food. He and I cook together well. He is not tidy though, none of the men are as in having things in order. However, I thought about what Osc said, about the target and all, that seemed very primal and inborn in a way. One man is a writer, intelligent, but, very very messy, but, can probably see through the forest as OSc says. One other man is a block and mason man, he rides horses too. I think his brain is into patterns and needs to be to do a good job on that type of work with lines and measured spaces....block,s bricks, tile...all organized...yes.... he too is brainy....not any one of the men are dummies.
What would a lesbian say? Hmmmmm???? How about this? " I was thinking you enjoy your beads so much partially out on the table as well as contained in trays, maybe a table can be built with a flat panel in the middle and trays all around on the sides for convenience !!!! .........How is that? A compromise -half and half !!!
I have noticed the ladies never have mentioned organization, my home is very organized though.
Women like to plant plants in designs and landscape with some designated shape...........Men I see landscaping, dig big holes and plant trees and do not care if the center of the trunk of the tree is in the center of the hole so by time they plant a row of them they are not laid out in a straight and perfect line. Women would be better at planting trees as I think the majority of them would have the ability and need (unconsciously ) to make a straight line so they can continue on with their design and know that the trees are marking a boundary for them in some manner.
Men, many times there cars are extremely clean (those are the executives cars......men that do construction have messy trucks, but, their tools are in order). Executive men hire maids to keep their office clean, but, usually they are not allowed to touch the papers on the desk. I do think there is something about the male , female role in organization and what needs to be organized, it varies upon the need of the sex maybe - I really do not know, I am speculating here. I think the ladies who did not mention the organization trays were more engrossed with looking at the beads as individual beads and also as strands for necklaces. That is what their mind took off with and the male mind took of with building and organizing.....In every way if you think of it, the males and females were both evoking artistic qualities - the male as in the erecting the symmetrical trays and the women feeling the beads and looking at them and imagining them to be a necklace as strung already. So, each way, the mind was using the part of it that sees forms and quantities. What part of the brain that is, I do not know, but, it could be in the left for logic and then the right for creative form. Can moods can shift hemispheres? I was told this, but, I do not know if that is true.
I wonder what younger men would say who just got out of college for instance? And then compare them to women under the same circumstance...that would be interesting I think.
What do men do when a house is clean? Do they try to keep it clean and organized or do they unconsciously let it drift into the forest mode? There will be some men that do and some men who don't, but, what is the average majority going to do?
What other circumstances are there? Maybe handling tickets on a string, like at a carnival ride or something. Will the man keep them in order or even care? And, then what about a lady? These are all very, very meaningful and important things we are attempting to figure out here you know....Ha!
C
Dr. Colette M. Dowell ND
Circular Times
www.circulartimes.org
www.robertschoch.net
Mary, Mary quite contrary ...
Colette - I think some men just like to be contrary and feel that they have better ideas than women. If you had your beads neatly arranged in trays, it's quite possible that those male visitors of yours might suggest that you could better assemble them creatively if you had them spread out as you do now!! Do it your way and don't listen to them!
Regards, Kathrinn
Control
Maybe it is all about the male need of always being in control (or at least pretending they are). To have some sort of order (or disorder) that lets them now it's all in their hands and not the other way around. Like a tiger who spreads his urine to mark his territory? :-)
Oops, here I am talking about cats again!
-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
Contrary Control Grailian Viewpoint
Control popped up in my mind too after Kathrinn remarked on the contrary.
Those two are quite the simplest views and most likely the correct assesment (Splg?)
I find it of interest to watch human characters.
I did not know you were into Cats Red, no need to be freaking. But, marking its territory? The men do not hike their leg up on my table.....they just all seem to coment on how I need to have it organized and women do not. Yeah, control, that is it. The Male feels the need to control females. OK, we have establshed that now, we can take it further.....................
WHY?
WHy does a man feel the need to control a female?
A.Inborn instinct to dominate?
B.Self esteem issues from cultural expressions?
C.Personal issues?
D.All the above?
Understanding the Male Species 101
A Grail perspective on the nature of Males.....
Funny, look at all of the different viewpoints, but, they are all significant and have valid points. From myths and legends to hard core Freud analyses. We will have to think of something new to disect and think about now. In time we could write a Grail Encyclopeadia of all that is discussed.
The Grailian Viewpoint------ryhmes with Alien.
I am interested in this...but, maybe it should be a new topic....
How does an average Male _ (or lets say Grail Male as they are different from the average Male) view a female who is ...................what ever....
Any ideas?
Maybe that would be dumb to do come to think of it...ooops never mind.......
Thank you, this was fun to read all of the different viewpoints.......interesting to see who writes what.....
XC
Dr. Colette M. Dowell ND
Circular Times
www.circulartimes.org
www.robertschoch.net
XX vs XY is a no way!
Sorry Dr. Dowell, but I can really only try to deal with easy subjects like the existence of aliens, parallel universes and the Loch Ness monster; but trying to solve the mistery of women is something that's way, way, way , WAY over my league!!
Besides, it's only when I'm participating in the discussion groups that I enter into what you may refer as "Grail mode". But on the real world I'm sorry to admit I tend to exhibit every single despicable trait inherent in my gender.
-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
well..
having been married twice.. have four sons...
male tendency is to see a situation and solve for problems..
even if there isn't one lol
they see your stuff.. and think they can improve on it
poor things lol
xox
marissa
Colette's question
"Why does a man feel the need to control a female?"
At the risk of offending all you nice gentlemen out there, I would like to speculate that the reason is that deep in his mind somewhere is the awful, sneaking, feeling that perhaps a woman is smarter than he is.
I will now go into hiding for personal safety!!
Regards, Kathrinn
Don't worry
We´ll be waiting here... with an AX!!
-----
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
Male and female difference
Hi Colette,
I am now risking life and limb by entering the debate into the difference between male and female. First of all, while differences may be due to gender, genes, whatever, I think there is another vital element to it.
We talk of behaviour being due to nature or nurture, but I think there is a third influence - culture. To me, traits and behaviour enter a society over generations due to cultural education.
This creates stereotypes, and I think we are so easily enticed to follow them. It is made easier by people having what I call a 'mask'. This is the social 'self', as opposed to the real 'self' in the mind.
The social self is very stereotypical, because it wants acceptance and this comes from being like everyone else of your sex, etc. The real self is usually not like this. With a seemingly confident person, the real self is under-confident. With a well organised social self, the real self is messy.
Hence, both male and females fall into a social pattern that seems predictable. However, a person's distinct view of a gender type can often be clouded. For instance, if you only see an organisational male, could it be down to the type of male a female attracts?
In many ways we meet and make friends with the type of person we prefer. Hence, our view of the opposite sex can have as much to do with the person's preferences than a reality of the opposite sex.
Of course, this all becomes irrelevent when it comes to which sex is the more superior. I would choose the male. My reason?
WE can aim :-)
...
Reality, like time, is relative to the observer
Anthony North
I know plenty of women who
I know plenty of women who would behave in exactly the same way the men did, Collette. Maybe your female friends reacted differently to the beads because you're a fellow female. I know that when women see my notebooks and work desk, they always comment on how disorganised I am. ALWAYS. From experience, it seems to be women who are more organised and multiskilled and practical. But I don't think it's a gender issue, rather one of personality, social peers and upbringing. A whole mix of reasons. I know a lot of women who are messier than a tornado in the house too -- clothes and shoes and cd cases all over the floor, dishes unwashed. So the assumption that women are neater than men is complete bullshit.
I work in exactly the same way you do, Collette -- intuitive/feeling, rather than pragmatic/rational. Does this make me a woman? Of course not. It just means I use one side of the brain more often than the other, and I have a creative bent rather than a rational, pragmatic mind. Especially when I gather the TDG news. ;-)
I met John Grey once, and I said, "John, you can shove that Mars Venus book up Uranus!"
Indecision
Hi Rick,
You said:
'I met John Grey once, and I said, "John, you can shove that Mars Venus book up Uranus!"'
I can't decide whether you're being saturnine or mercurial :-)
...
The balanced adult retains an inner child
Anthony North
What planet did you get off of?
Or were they being capricious.......?
There is that saying, "Man, that was really out there." So, I developed the Pluto Prize - an award given to the most outrageous story or event.
"Many times we hear true stories that are ridiculously humorous, we chuckle about them for ages and repeat the stories to our friends and others because we want to share the laugh; a form of social interplay.
The Pluto Prize is an award given to a particular individual, event or concept that is so outrageously out there in terms of coherent logical thinking, it blows our minds whenever we even try to consider and comprehend the situation. Circular Times welcomes your stories and concepts."
It has not been updated since I started my file upload though. Here is an example of it.
Pluto Prize
Women are not neater than men. And if we did not know that, then we can count you in on establishing that fact. Yeah, I have seen awful nasty women, toof-toof-hhhuaaaack- hhhhuuu---phooey.....wouldn't want to eat in their kitchen, no way Jose..........
Fellow females? I almost thought of he/she when you stated that. That is a good term for a transvestite.
I would think the majority of people I am attracted to in my life are intelligent and creative ones.
I work on an intuitive level at times and other times logically. Depends on my task at hand.
Has any one ever taken that test of whether or not you are left brain or right brain?
I did- when I took it I said I was mid-brain as when I am too logical I say to myself, "Gee Colette, you are being too hard on yourself, relax some and it will flow." When I am being too emotional and weeping away I say to myself, "Now Colette, you can not let your emotions drag you away, you must be understanding of this situation."
Well anyway, I did say I was mid-brain and this fellow said, "No, a person can not be mid-brain, we have never seen that." I said, " You wanna bet?" and then I proceeded to take the test. When the answers were assigned numbers and calculated up I came in at a balance of minus numbers equal to that of the plus numbers and was determined to be mid-brain (or however he did that thing). This man was astonished as he had never seen this and I had also qualified myself before I took the test. Now, we can take that further- Was I using my 6th sense - which would be inherent of my right side and so I foresaw the outcome? Or was I using reasoning skills and being logical about my brain, thus using my left brain function.....Whoah, this is getting heavy now.....
I am tending to think that most Grailians are right brain - but, I could be wrong. Maybe they are left because of all of the thinking they do to try to figure out what is really going on. You see, my gut feeling is they are right brain, but, when I think of it, well, maybe they aren't.
Males, well, I like them very much and my world is a better place for them. I would like for any one of them to go ahead and build me an extra tray table with organizational bins- I would use it, but,I would also use my little table in the way that I do.
My home is organized and kept to a healthy level of cleanliness. It is OK to use my home. I am not anal retentive and not allow some one to walk in if they have dirt on their feet as I can always wipe it up. But, I do not like for things to be thrown all over and left. I, myself need to have things in order so I can find them when needed. But, I am not always so good at keeping things in order. I have my tools and files in order until I use them, then they are messed up and have to be reorganized after a project is completed.
C
Dr. Colette M. Dowell ND
Circular Times
www.circulartimes.org
www.robertschoch.net
Each to Their Own
Dear Colette:
It strikes me that if you're happy with the way you arrange your beads, that's no one else's concern.
Then again, this may have a bit to do with volume. I once wholesaled the jewelry made by a master lost-wax casting method craftsman; he made, and I sold, huge quantities of rings, bracelets, and earrings, each one slightly different -- no two were ever exactly alike. Each silver piece had a unique array of flowers and, sometimes, tiny creatures, while a good number also included semi-precious gemstones.
With such a vast array of his own wax flowers, creatures, stonesets, findings, and gemstones to choose from, and with so very many items going onto each casting, he had no choice but to be very organized, and this included a large number of trays with compartments, from which he chose elements to add to any particular piece he was working on.
So he designed and made pieces of jewelry considered quite "feminine" in nature and was highly organized at the same time, while combining the intuition and creativity of the artist with the skills of a mechanic -- very yin and yang.
Of course it's possible to generalize and assign traits to male and female, but individual souls and minds are often quite distinct, with their own unique blend.
Regards
Bill I.
I am like that too
Hello Bill,
Nice to see you.
I am like that too. You see, I am organized and I am free form. I have to set my beads up in seperate trays as I have a lot of them, so, I do understand about how I must keep them in little bins and all of the different types. I use to work with silver and cut stones.
That must have been nice to work with all of that jewelry. I love jewelry and have been working with it since I was little. When I was at my grandma's house she would put me on her bed and take out her jewelry boxes and let me sort through them. I would see all of the beautiful trinkets and I would imagine many things. I have always appreciated artists.
I had 3 brothers that would beat me up all of the time. Grandma would take care of me and keep them away from me when we were at her house. It was her way of getting my mind off them and into some other place. My grandma was a very wonderful and wise woman.
I still sit on my bed and sort through boxes of little jewelry pieces, trinkets and tiny things. It is relaxing to me and I let my mind drift.
Thanks everyone, it has been really fun to have this chat. I do enjoy reading all of the various expressions.
XC
Dr. Colette M. Dowell ND
Circular Times
www.circulartimes.org
www.robertschoch.net
it's to do with practicality me thinks
neatness is not my motivation here. When doing work with things that can move all around, I will constrain them. Stacking hay I stack neat and overlayed so it won't fall on my head. Thats hand stacking, but machine stacking is different. Round bails have their own problems. But I digress. Years ago I made many very small models. Ships in bottles and small electric cars. The parts were very small and could roll any where so I restrained the parts in some undifined order.
When working on large machinery, my tools are everywhere but the parts I remove are always carefully placed in order.
My machinery shed has order. I can hitch any machine without having to move an other one. Mind you this shed is 50m by 30m under roof.
So what I'm getting at is if it's practical to have loose things then why not. But if it's not then order and restrainment is the go.
My 2 bobs worth......................
"Life can be whatever you want it to be, as long as you do what your told."
LRF.
females too
I have noticed the same thing with females.
There are some people who separate work from the home. They organize their work environment, and at home they don't organize that much.
To add to your confusion (and their's), a bunch of piles of stuff can be organized.
There can be the pile of bills to pay, in timing order. And the pile of dirty shirts, separate from teh pile of dirty socks. And so on.
Perhaps the difference is that the people who told you how to organize the things considered it work, as opposed to your living space. Where you did not make that separation. Just a guess.
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For every action there is an equal and opposite government program.