Warriors Of Qumran

http://www.livescience.com/history/07071...
By Heather Whipps, Special to LiveScience

posted: 12 July 2007 10:18 am ET

Excerpt-
Fierce warriors once occupied the famous complex where the Dead Sea Scrolls were written, new research suggests.
Using the world's first virtual 3-D reconstruction of the site, historians recently found evidence of a fortress that was later converted into its more peaceful, pious function.

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It's Not Suprising!

Pam

The Qumran site where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found was probably occupied off and on for thousands of years.

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

Originally a fortress

Dear cnnek, I agree, there is marked difference in the buildings that have been dug up. Noting the use of the "new" buildings which were added much later than the original structure. As further investigative digs progress I'm sure that more pertinant information will be revealed. I have a coffee table size book regarding Qumran that has photos of the area (where they have yet to dig) and I think even older artifacts will be found. That is speculation on my part, but we shall see as special digs permit only certain areas to be dug into. I'm awaiting finds of skeletal remains of the former era and weaponry.
***********************************************************
At present I am reading information on another mystery, the exact path of De Soto through the southwest United States. Using the information from journals of men who were there on the 1,400 mile plus trek and when De Soto died, somewhere near the famous Poverty Point area in Louisiana near Natchez and Vicksburg, Mississippi.
http://www.nps.gov/history/history/onlin...
Excerpt-
Much of the information for this study comes from the superb collection of unpublished documents gathered from various Spanish archives and preserved on microfilm and photostats at the P. K. Yonge Library of Florida History at the University of Florida. The holdings of Jeannette Thurber Connor papers, the Woodbury Lowery transcripts, the Buckingham Smith papers, the John B. Stetson collection, and the recently acquired Counts of Revillagigedo archives, have been complemented in the past years with copies of additional Florida documents from the Archivo General de Indias in Spain. To date there are few sixteenth century Florida documents contained in the Archivo General de Indias that are not found in the P. K. Yonge Library. These materials allowed an increase of John R. Swanton's list of 194 survivors to 257, and to add previously unknown details about their lives. Using these sources I have listed the known survivors of Hernando de Soto's expedition and included their biographical data.

(I cannot help but note and emphasize the words UNPUBLISHED archives)

Much speculation on the exact route, (what is strange is the Florida University report was taken down the day after I read it) where sudents made the route on facts based in the journals, contrary to what has been taught was the route. This report (with many photos to back up these students claims regarding topography and locale of the geography) confirmed that "homes and villages were no more than a bow shot in distance one from the other" per Vaca's journal description. That means at about a distance of one half mile.

The population was much higher than earlier reports. As noted on a recent news link. Extensive road and trade route sytems were in place and had been for centuries, huge farms and cultivated fields were reported in these journals. Farming in the Americas was ongoing for many thousands of years. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...

My question is why has this particular information been kept under wraps for so long? These journals reveal many truths of the thought processes of these men and the goverments that sponsered them to invade/conquer America/La Florida. It's quite evident the native tribes had stable governments, a cohesive spiritual foundation, gathering extensive tribes together for many festivals and crop planting/harvesting rituals.
The Spanish, in their bloody quest for gold decimated thousands on their journey. In the end, he was defeated in his madness, sick and hungry with great loss of men as well as goods, horses, pigs and dogs. The clever way that the tribal Mingo's (chiefs) had him chasing a pointless path towards swamps located in Mississippi and Louisiana and desert places in Texas is really telling.

Well, we shall see, as the Poverty Point site where a massive mound in the shape of a bird effigy is now being assessed. The scientists, there on site, report that it would take, at the present rate, one thousand plus years to excavate these mounds and surrounding area. I find this very important in lieu of finding the weather patterns caused massive movements of entire tribes, these tribes relocated into this area due to the rich soil and abundant wildlife for hunting and fishing. This confirms the Chickasaw (and some Choctaw) tribes oral history of a great long trek from a dry place where the sun goes down, crossing a mighty Mississippi (father/mother of waters) river and landing on the plains near where Greenville, Mississippi now stands.

I'm off topic but I just decided to tell you about this while I had it on my mind. Thanks cnnek for posting a reply. Love, Pam -----------------------------Truth is stranger than fiction.

I have discussed Ms. Whipps' article at length...

This article is an outrageous distortion

Schniedewind and his UCLA colleagues have simply lifted this from work by a series of scholars and presented it as their own "discovery." Heather Whipps has really been taken for a ride--if she had consulted with any serious Qumran specialist she would have realized what is going on.

(1) Dr. Yizhar Hirschfeld's book Qumran in Context (2004) explains at length that the site was originally a fortress (see especially Chapter 3, pp. 49-182). The book provides two technically correct, original drawings of the tower and rectangular building attached to it, first as they existed during the Hasmonean period (p. 86) and then with a new extension of the Herodian period (p. 113). Hirschfeld, a professional archaeologist, did not need to use "virtual 3-D reconstruction" to do his work and reveal that Qumran was built as a fortress.

(2) The leaders of the official Israel Antiquities Authority Qumran team, Dr. Yitzhak Magen and Dr. Yuval Peleg, also clearly state that Qumran was a Hasmonean "military post responsible for the security of the Dead Sea shore" (See their report in The Site of the Dead Sea Scrolls: Archaeological Interpretations and Debates [1996], pp. 102 ff.).

(3) Dr. Norman Golb of the University of Chicago has been arguing that Qumran was a fortress since at least 1980.

So I ask: why are these traditional Dead Sea Scrolls scholars at UCLA stepping in now and trying to steal the credit due to their opponents, who have refuted fifty years of research?

Schniedewind's outrageous "virtual reality" film, and his sensationalist press campaign surrounding it, should be seen in context. Apparently this scholar has decided to rehash the findings of several prominent Israeli archaeologists and present it as his own "discovery," without explaining that his true aim is to reconcile those findings with the Qumran-Essene theory that these same Israeli archaeologists, following Golb, have rejected.

For further details, see my pieces http://www.nowpublic.com/dead_sea_scroll...
and
http://www.nowpublic.com/dead_sea_scroll...
and the references provided in them.

Dr. Norman Golb's article Feb 2007

http://oi.uchicago.edu/research/projects...

This is a very well written article giving pertinant data regarding the scrolls, the locations in question, the dig itself, the history of the presentations of the scrolls in the United States and the ploy to put forth theories that have no valid proof, deliberately planted to boost museum attendence. Located on the last page are two maps to show the opposing theories. -----------------------------Truth is stranger than fiction.

One further point

I forgot to say one basic thing:

None of the key Israeli archaeologists of the past decade who have investigated the two stages of Qumran construction (Hirschfeld, Magen, Peleg) have concluded or suggested that in the second stage any kind of sect, let alone "pious monks," lived there or wrote scrolls there. Probably due to no fault of her own, Ms. Whipps fails to mention this crucial fact in her article.

Excellent links

Dear Charles,

I have been remiss in not properly welcoming you to TDG and appreciate your time and effort in bringing the articles to our awareness.

Thank you Mr. Gadda for providing the information (links to your articles, as well as further links inside those articles) to help us more fully understand the theories and findings.

As long as there is someone that can give us an objective view of these discoveries, without fundamentalism of any kind tainting them, we shall be the better for it. Keep up the good work and I want to extend an invitation for you to post any further finds on this subject for TDG.

Kind regards, Pam -----------------------------Truth is stranger than fiction.

"Virtual Qumran" film subject of scathing review

In case anyone is still reading this thread, the University of Chicago's Oriental Institute website is now carrying an article by historian Norman Golb, in which he exposes a series of blatantly false and misleading claims made in the "Virtual Qumran" film produced by the UCLA team and being projected to thousands of people daily at a Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit taking place in a "natural history" museum in San Diego.

http://oi.uchicago.edu/pdf/san_diego_vir...

Of particular concern is a passage towards the end (pp. 6-7), where Golb deals with a marginal comment in the film script that apparently was not intended for publication, and in which the author of the film refers to a secret "reason" that he "never writes down." Given the demonstrably false claims made throughout the film, the attitude of secrecy and concealment signaled in such a statement clearly raises ethical concerns regarding the intersection between religion, academics and science museum exhibits.