The biggest conspiracy

Are some conspiracy theories perpetuated for the sole reason of selling the theories ? Do conspiracy theories themselves divide society and create fear ? Could conspiracy theory writers be seen as preying on those with less understanding of reason and science ?

The general theories go something like this:

There are a few people in positions that allow them to control the thinking and the money of people willing to believe them. These same people look after there like minded friends, advertise their products, offer only limited memes that they know the less informed will easily remember and pass onto their like-minded friends.

I bet there are more 'alternative' theories about ancient Egypt than there are academic archaeological studies, and I bet the alternative theories come equipped with more advertisements. Which of the two hold more testable facts ? Which of the two earn the authors more money ? Which are more physically usable and which ones just get talked about more ?

The human nature that influences people to enjoy money and the power to control people is just as evident in the conspiracy crowd as it is in high business, its just that there are many more in the conspiracy crowd. People from within he general public are just as corrupt and they are the ones who go onto positions of power. So next time your friend tells you that president Bush is a shapeshifting reptile that drinks the blood of children or that a unusual skull is an alien hybrid or the pyramids are actually a stargate or worse still makes a profit out of saying so, ask yourself why they want to tell you that, and if you believe it, ask yourself why you believe it. Memes are interesting things. Some information just seems to want to exist irrespective of its truth. It is as if concepts themselves are jealous of reality and want to be just as real (even if it means them only being as real within peoples heads). If an idea is popular it is because it is easily remembered and passed on to others, the less educated the person, the less science is needed in the theory for them to think they understand it.

Thank your lucky stars that the conspiracy theorists are not the ones in power because if its not based on testable facts, a lot of people are going to end up confused, scared and out of pocket.

The biggest conspiracy is the conspiracy theories themselves, new age spirituality and 'alternative' medication. There are many well educated people who have worked hard to bring vaccines, invent technology, maintain trading routes and supplies of essential power and there are many people without the same background who are able to coin a few phrases from the safety of their keyboard and influence a lot of gullible people. Some do it because they believe in creating a better world and fulfilling their potentials others are just slaves to the memes. If there is no other proof than something just being an idea, the chances are it is just simply an idea, not real, but easily assimilated into a brain with too much leisure time on its hands.

ian

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Seeker1's picture
Member since:
5 May 2004
Last activity:
12 years 23 weeks

What makes you think that at various times, conspiracy theorists have NOT been in power?

You should, for example, take a look at what historian Richard Hofstadter has to say:
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/conspiracy_...

The "paranoid style" has been dominant not only in American politics, but in fact in political systems throughout the world.

At various times, American political parties (with more than "fringe" presence) have claimed that Jews, Masons, the Pope or the Jesuits, Illuminati, or secret "Reds" are lurking everywhere waiting to take over the government.

The Nazi regime, of course, promoted and defended the accuracy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Today, neo-Nazis promote a conspiracy theory of Holocaust revisionism; the beat goes on.

However, I think you focus too much on profit as the motive for the paranoid style; power is another reason.

Nothing rallies people behind your cause then putting forward a common enemy - even an imagined one. So you could argue that the newest "Phantom Menace" is a global Islamic fundamentalist hydra which is about as emphemeral as the global communist conspiracy, but also as definitive in driving current policy.

As Hitler once candidly admitted, "If the Jews did not exist, we would have to invent them."

Steven Mizrach
Academic, Pop Culture Junkie, Grail Recycler

Anonymous's picture

Hi Steve,

i was refering to the 'amateur' theorists who immediately jump on the bandwagon, i do understand what you are saying about the people who have held power/do hold power, and i'm not saying they arnt the bad guys as well.

I also agree that it is'nt just about profit, sometimes the only reason i can think that people would want to go to all the effort they do to convince us they were part of a secret military ufo operation, or that their herbal 'cure' is better than tested medical ones is to fuel their ego and give them at least some influence over others. A lot of it is for money as well though!

What makes the 'new age' conspiracy theorists so dangerous is that they speak directly to the uneducated public, i know that sounds patronising, its not meant to. The internet has provided an opportunity and a lot of people have seized upon it, total conjecture is now available to the masses and people are soaking it up (which is a worry in itself).

I dont believe the global islamist threat.....but i dont discount it either, with all the conspiracy theorists people are going to find it harder and harder to distinguish the truth (whatever that is). I'm sure you must be aware of many sites on the net who blatantly push concepts which are more idea than testable evidence and portray them as fact. They dont help to lessen peoples fear and paranoia which may not be anywhere near as justifable as they have been told it should be!

ian

Seeker1's picture
Member since:
5 May 2004
Last activity:
12 years 23 weeks

But aren't the conspiracists in power far more dangerous than the ones who are not?

Currently in the U.S. (and to a lesser extent in Britain), there is a regime whose appeal to continued power is based on "protecting" us from a threat which may not really exist.

They are the conspiracists in charge at the moment. And unlike the New Agers you worry about, these guys have tanks, planes, and atom bombs at their disposal.

Steven Mizrach
Academic, Pop Culture Junkie, Grail Recycler

Anonymous's picture

Hi Steve,
That's what I like about this site, the highly intelligent responses from some people in the forum.
You are spot on about conspiracies.

About the link....I have seen institutions completely dominated by masons...not that they could take over the world, but they have taken over institutions here in Queensland.
At one time they also dominated the Police Force.

The present public perception of Islam as being a world threat is sickening, and very wide spread.Almost every one I talk to tells me we have to stop them before they take over.
It would appear that Hitler's lesson went down very well with certain people.

And yes, I believe you are right; it is all about power.

shadows

Anonymous's picture

I forgot to mention as well that in Australia we have a person employed by the Prime Minister to rewrite Australian history.
His name is Keith Windschuttle.
He is a former member of the communist party, extremely left-wing and wrote for many left-wing journals and papers over the years.
Somehow however, he took a turn right.
John Howard asked him to examine the history of the first 200 years in Oz and what it meant for the aborigines.
Of course, Windschuttle, seeing a large grant and an OBE ahead, did what he was asked to do.
He denies genocide of aborigines in Tasmania.
He also denied the full-on slaughter of blacks throughout Australia that continued for almost 150 years.
This revisionism has caused much harm, with aborigines not only having lost their lands and families, but now having the truth of the real events lost as well.
I believe that it is a dreadful and scandalous thing for a Government to rewrite history as they wish it had been lived.
Only when we look at history and see what has been done can we not make the same mistakes again.

shadows

Anonymous's picture

What makes conspiracy theorists deflect their inaccuracies, and in some cases downright lies, onto the doings of 'powerful' people, as if that is more important ?

The real world for me, or the realer world, are down to earth accesible people, these are the people who i discuss everyday things with, so when these people spread baddly thought out conspiracies i find it very sinister. Ok, politicains do it, but they dont care about me or you, some people say they do care, yet tell us all sorts of fancied up conjecture.

Everyday people are more influenced by fashion memes than they are high government because they understand the language used and feel empowered by the information. The more people are confused by junk information, the more distrusting and fractured becomes this society.

Just because someone in 'power' does it doesnt make it right for others to do it. Sometimes it as if, sub conciously maybe, the conspiracy theorists see the people in power as parent figures and, like children, try to copy in a less 'mature' way. Lies amd disinformation begett lies and disinformation.

This conspiracy culture is a sinister fashion and like other fashions, it only really serves to boost the ego's of the practioners.

ian

Seeker1's picture
Member since:
5 May 2004
Last activity:
12 years 23 weeks

Who is this comment aimed at? It does not appear as a reply to any of the others.

On the offhand chance it could be directed at me, since you make references to power, then I am wondering why you call me a conspiracy theorist.

No sir. I am a disciple of Michel Foucault, and I am interested in the relationship between knowledge and power, and if you don't realize the two things are deeply intertwined, you don't understand the way knowledge is socially generated.

In point of fact, I consider many conspiracy theorists bonkers (my favorite is the "we didn't go to the Moon and it was all filmed on a studio" one), and many others (such as Holocaust denial) reflecting dangerous tendencies toward scapegoating of racial, ethnic, or other minorities.

The alternative history, paranormal/Fortean, and conspiracy theory genres often seem to seamlessly overlap, as they do on this forum, but it really is not the latter subject that interests me the most out of the three.

I do believe conspiracies exist, insofar as people will collaborate in secret to achieve goals. That has existed since the beginning of time. However, the more audacious they become, the more ridiculous I consider them. There is no group planning world domination, other than in James Bond movies, because nobody could run the entire place even if they could dominate it. So the NWO and the rest is all pure nonsense.

For sure, the one lesson I hope you were NOT gathering from my statement was that it is OK for "us" to lie and use disinformation because "they" do. OTOH, if you don't think "they" are better at it than "we" are, then you are hopelessly naive.

Steven Mizrach
Academic, Pop Culture Junkie, Grail Recycler

Anonymous's picture

Hi Steven, no, it wasnt aimed directly you (otherwise i would have replied to your thread), it did take into account what you said though, as well as everybody elses comments. For the record, i mentioned the word 'power' first, so there !

Yes, i am naive (not hopelessly i hope) but there are somethings i just dont know, and i also agree that forums such as these are very useful for putting everything into the pot and debating some semblance of sense.

I am simply giving me opinion on the mainstream nature of spreading very questionable information dressed up as the truth and postulating that the evolution of such a culture could result in a very confused and 'bonkers' (thats a quote from you !) society.

It is also interesting why this present society is so willing to buy the ideas, fill their thoughts with them, and pass them onto others. Conspiracy theories are very effectively engineered memes and they are flourishing in this climate. AND some people do it on purpose to sell their books and feel clever/respected etc.

Maybe the people who peddle conspiracy theories for a hobby/living, will actually get better at it than people in power and control the thought process' of the future. We know about the politicians and the big businesses and how, mixed in with the good stuff like health care, education & so on, there is a lot of corruption, but mixed in with the good stuff of conspiracies, (There is a good heads up about Aspertame on the daily grail at the moment) there is also a seething extra dimensions worth of made up, but accepted as real, half arsed concepts, lies and advertising opportunities.
I think it would be interesting if we started to point them ALL out rather than attaching (politcal ?) values to some and letting most of the culprits get away with it and influence others.

ian

Cernig's picture
Member since:
11 May 2004
Last activity:
4 years 19 weeks

Hi Steven, Ian,

Of course any discussion of conspiracies must take into account the Project for The New American Century. This group has done a very good job of making it's agenda the foreign policy of the U.S.A. but that's easy condidering its membership.

Vice President Dick Cheney is a founding member of PNAC, along with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Defense Policy Board chairman Richard Perle. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz is the ideological father of the group. Bruce Jackson, a PNAC director, served as a Pentagon official for Ronald Reagan before leaving government service to take a leading position with the weapons manufacturer Lockheed Martin.

The PNAC Statement of Principles is signed by Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld, as well as by Eliot Abrams, Jeb Bush, Bush's special envoy to Afghanistan Zalmay Khalilzad, and many others. William Kristol, famed conservative writer for the Weekly Standard, is also a co-founder of the group. The Weekly Standard is owned by Ruppert Murdoch, who also owns international media giant Fox News.

Recently they released a memo entitled "Toward Regime Change in North Korea" which is available on their website and is very worth a look.

Just because you are paranoid...

Regards, C

Anonymous's picture

I think it would be interesting if we started to point them ALL out rather than attaching (politcal ?) values to some and letting most of the culprits get away with it and influence others.

I agree fully. In all I've read, this has to be the best paragraph yet.

We need to come to one place on the net possible to spill the dirt!

I enjoy the live web radio at thepowerhour.com

please check out carnicom.com re; contrails

Regards

Anonymous's picture

for your interest

bilderberg.org
infowars.com

reference NWO

Regards

Greg's picture
Member since:
30 April 2004
Last activity:
2 hours 43 min

Hi,

Please note that I have deleted all the other similar comments you posted in various threads on this site. Your links here are on topic for the thread, so I have no problem with leaving this comment. However, in all other cases it was just spamming. Please try and discuss the subjects, and if you have a relevant link, add it once - don't post it right across the site. Thanks.

Peace and Respect
Greg
-------------------------------------------
You monkeys only think you're running things

Anonymous's picture

What is the mostly likely source of alternative and conspiracy theories ?

Truth ?

or

A society willing (and able) to believe and peddle concepts above testable 'reality' ?

I would suggest that Occams razor tells us that the much of this 'new' information is actually us superimposing memes onto physicality. And further to that i would suggest that many people are quite aware that that is what they are doing.

ian

Anonymous's picture

the idea that there is one and only one reality...

or that reality is physical...

are memes.

Watch Your Overcoat.

Anonymous's picture

or that the reality suggested by the memes is more real than the memes themselves (just becuaes you can't touch them !) memes could be the real 'infinity' whilst reality is just something they created and instead of evolving into more complex systems, reality just crumbles into entropy. Reality as jsut an evolutionary branch of memetics.

But, saying that, most people only every think or believe that they have experienced this one reality, which coupled with science (in general) is a very useful mindset.

An analogy, if all testable statements are angels, and all concepts that exist only to fill our leisure time are demons......then conspiracy and alternative theories are creating a 'hell on earth' for the majority of minds that have no choice but to incorporate the memes into their thinking.

side note: Has anyone noticed that people who have dabbled in the occult or somw time are more susceptible to propogating memes and as such are more likely to fill their minds with conjecture ? Maybe at one time we were as one with nature, without the original ego/sense of self meme, and just existed in a natural harmonic flow. The more leisure time we get, the more we turn to abstract conjecture and the fall of man just gets bigger. unusable thoughts increase the distance and number of divisions to such a point that we can only speculate on the meaning of 'the one' true nature.

ian

BaNoyes's picture
Member since:
21 June 2006
Last activity:
11 years 5 weeks

seems to me that if you can prove it ..it is not a theory
The way the indoctonated write and speak is very telling
they have the same patter and the same words... ranting about "theorys"
No information...zero
so much for education
This is the most telling sentence............
"Thank your lucky stars that the conspiracy theorists are not the ones in power because if its not based on testable facts, a lot of people are going to end up confused, scared and out of pocket".......
The are plenty of facts
One is vaccinations are ineffective,dangerous and are in themselves a point in the over taking of humankind...Ian look before you leap....clear your mind...get rid of your false education
WAKE UP

the shadow's picture
Member since:
24 June 2004
Last activity:
10 years 7 weeks

over the people.If the governments stopped demanding that people are vaccinated they would be giving up the power to tell people what to do.
Its not whether vaccinations work or not, it is the fact that it is law that people must have them.

shadows

Melen's picture
Member since:
21 June 2006
Last activity:
10 years 50 weeks

Greetings all,

I'm now to TDG, so go easy on me. :) I did want to throw a couple comments out there, however.

"Are some conspiracy theories perpetuated for the sole reason of selling the theories ? Do conspiracy theories themselves divide society and create fear ? Could conspiracy theory writers be seen as preying on those with less understanding of reason and science ?"

Not to nitpick, but this comes acrossed as a conspiracy theory to me, saying that conspiracy theories are perpetuated for money or power. That's a very paranoid point of view. No doubt, I'm sure it has been, and is, and will be done for those reasons. Alot of time it's misinformation, wishful thinking or just pure stupidity.

"I bet there are more 'alternative' theories about ancient Egypt than there are academic archaeological studies, and I bet the alternative theories come equipped with more advertisements. Which of the two hold more testable facts ? Which of the two earn the authors more money ? Which are more physically usable and which ones just get talked about more ?"

I'm sure academic studies (i.e. ones that have been published) have more testable facts *at this time*. That doesn't mean they're correct. Hell, it seems every week things I was taught as science "fact" in school turn out to be incorrect. How the mistakes are being found (tho I question if they're really being corrected or replaced with even more incorrect assumptions) is primarily due to those that are skeptical enough to question "the norm". Alternative and, even, conspiracy theories do contribue to our learning and searching for the truth in all things.

"So next time your friend tells you that president Bush is a shapeshifting reptile that drinks the blood of children or that a unusual skull is an alien hybrid or the pyramids are actually a stargate or worse still makes a profit out of saying so, ask yourself why they want to tell you that, and if you believe it, ask yourself why you believe it."

I think I'd want my friend to see a therapist if something like this was said to me. I'd attempt to back away slowly and make no sudden moves ...

"Thank your lucky stars that the conspiracy theorists are not the ones in power because if its not based on testable facts, a lot of people are going to end up confused, scared and out of pocket."

There are alot of theories (::chuckle::) out there that some of our biggest unknowns were, in fact, given to the public by those in power to distract the public or at least enabled them to be controlled easier. I remember seeing this "theory" about UFO's (well, and Christianity, but I wont go there :).

"The biggest conspiracy is the conspiracy theories themselves, new age spirituality and 'alternative' medication."

I completly, and utterly, disagree with most of this statement. First, "new age spirituality" and "alternative medication" are extremely broad terms. By "new age spirituality", one could consider meditation, which has known physical benefits. Most "alternative medications" *aren't* "alternative". They have hundreds, and in some cases perhaps thousands, of years of testing, usage and proof that they work. I would submit that our current medications are truly "alternative". I refuse to accept that because someone well-educated has worked hard to bring forth a vaccine that it's "better".

To that I would say, start reading the instructions that come with modern medications that you take. Most (all?) have some serious potential side effects. Add to that the fact that we're increasingly finding out that some of our modern drugs, in the long run, aren't healthy at all and are actually detrimental. Yes, I'm speaking generally here, but I could (or anyone could) provide plenty of facts from respected scientists to back up what I'm saying. Most times one can just look on any of the major news sites (cnn.com, etc).

Those terms, however, are too broad and encompass too much to really be debatable.

"If there is no other proof than something just being an idea, the chances are it is just simply an idea, not real, but easily assimilated into a brain with too much leisure time on its hands."

If this were the case, we'd still be living in caves. Please pass the brontosaurus thigh.

-Melen

thefloppy1's picture
Member since:
1 May 2004
Last activity:
1 year 30 weeks

"Thank your lucky stars that the conspiracy theorists are not the ones in power because if its not based on testable facts, a lot of people are going to end up confused, scared and out of pocket."

had to laugh when I read that bit......I would say the majority of people are confused, scared and out of pocket now.......!