Haitian Refugees? No, Thank You
Posted by red pill junkie at 00:07, 16 Jan 2010Question:
Has anyone read or heard on TV of any country offering to receive refugees from Haiti, after the catastrophic earthquake that claimed the lives of thousands, and will claim even more after the corpses lying on the street start to rot and become a serious health hazard?
Neither have I :(
The reason for this is obvious: Any country willing to open their borders to receive Haitian refugees, would later have a really hard time trying to force those people to return home. Those poor people would struggle & beg to be granted asylum; and frankly, who could blame them??
In 2008, they were already resorting to mud cookies because there was no food to be found, after the tropical storms that hit the island that year.
And after the international humanitarian help stops, God only knows how they will manage to survive.
Last year many news pundits were using the term "failed nation" when referring to my country, Mexico. Well, turns out Mexico is a haven of order and stability compared to our brothers in the Antilles.
But not even that will convince the other nations of the continent to grant asylum to them.
I fear this is just a little preview of the things we will face when more countries suffer the consequences of Climate Change.
The poor are ALWAYS the ones who suffer first.
PS: not only that, but there's also people claiming Haitians are to blame for their suffering, because they made a pact with the devil!! I need to go take a few shots of Tequila to pass that out. BRB >_<
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Comments
22 November 2004
1 day 22 hours
There are about 80,000 or so Haitians in Canada. Our head of state is one of them.
There are lots of them in Florida, it is close.
Sadly, Haiti isn't a failed nation in the sense that they never had anything working that could fail. A really sad case.
They threw out the slave drivers in 1804, and now there are 300,000 child slaves there.
Generally I favour weak governments, but often when you have those, you get countries like Haiti.
----
No amount of cursing at the round earth will make it flat.
12 April 2007
9 min 54 sec
I also came across this news, saying the US will be willing to cut some slack to the illegal immigrants from Haiti.
But those are immigrans that are already there.
And yeah. perhaps the term 'failed state' does not apply to Haiti. I came up the other day with the term 'stillborn state': a nation that only attained that status in paper only; because the sole purpose of the State's existence is to provide with security, sustenance and education to the population (the majority, at least). And that's not been the case with Haiti —maybe not even in Mexico for that matter, if one's truly objective about it.
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
22 November 2004
1 day 22 hours
Some years ago I studied the early middle ages in Europe. Not in person (I'm not that old), it was a history class.
It looked to me like the empire of Charlemagne was organized much like a really big farm. Charles (Karolus) seemed to
consider the kingdom of the Franks (a bunch of Germans) as his
own personal property. Well, his family estate. The purpose of his kingdom was the preservation and increase of the estate's holdings and functioning.
That was more or less the norm for the day. He was good at it. To some degree his subjects (the people) benefited from his success. Except of course those who died in wars and such.
The state of Haiti has been useful for some of the ruling class there. But even if you use the model of 1300 years ago, they have been doing a lousy job of preserving their "property".
Of course the US is being blamed for this one. On the site linked to in this thread, some imbecile says that the US probably caused the quake. That's pretty predictable.
Something has been wrong with Haiti for a long time. It's not really the interference by the US, the US has interfered plenty in other places. Other places are not as bad as Haiti. It's not the location or the climate. Maybe there is not a single reason. Maybe it is not that something bad happened there, maybe it is the absence of anything positive.
Maybe it's not mismanagement, maybe it is the absence of management.
----
No amount of cursing at the round earth will make it flat.
12 April 2007
9 min 54 sec
Look: I'm not pointing the finger on the US directly on this one. Yes, I'm aware the US has concocted coups on practically ALL the nations that happen to share space with them in the continent. But, like you say, all those other countries have not let their economy sink to the levels of Haiti.
I can give no explanation as to why Haiti has proven to be such a failure as a nation supposed to give its citizens a modicum of well-being. It's so tempting to concoct some stupid-ass easy answer like "they made a pact with the devil!". But I guess we here at the Grail like to strain our neurons a wee bit more.
But, I do think that their current situation is a failure of ALL Latin American countries. Not just the US. But also Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Cuba, Ecuador, Belize, Paraguay, etc. ALL OF US are guilty.
The Americans stopped caring about the continent the minute they got attacked in 9/11 (let's not side-track with this, OK?). But the other countries should have realized we need to help each other.
And all of us knew Haiti needed an extra help more than any other place. We just kept watching as they kept sinking...
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
22 November 2004
1 day 22 hours
Yes, as you say:
Not just the US. But also Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Cuba, Ecuador, Belize, Paraguay, etc. ALL OF US are guilty.
except you forgot to add the Haitians. They ignored the problems too.
----
No amount of cursing at the round earth will make it flat.
12 April 2007
9 min 54 sec
We shouldn't overlook self-responsibility, for sure. That is also a skewed vision of reality.
But since I'm not Haitian, I feel I'm in not a great position to number the domestic factors that have prevented them to grow as a nation.
That's why I tend to focus my harshest critics to Mexico ;)
PS: And maybe blaming the Haitians for their current situation, is a bit like blaming a kid that was born with polio, and doesn't have a wheelchair, for not being as fast as the other children at the track. Without a proper perspective, we risk being unfair in the judgement.
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
7 March 2009
5 weeks 6 days
from:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info...
"How did Haiti get so poor? Despite a century of American colonialism, occupation, and propping up corrupt dictators? Even though the CIA staged coups d'état against every democratically elected president they ever had?
It's an important question. An earthquake isn't just an earthquake. The same 7.0 tremor hitting San Francisco wouldn't kill nearly as many people as in Port-au-Prince."
And speaking of Pat Robertson---that guy is constantly saying hateful, callous, evil things. What a wolf in sheep's clothing--well, he doesn't even dress like a sheep anymore, does he?! But I guess there's still a flock that believes in him...? I wish he'd go to Heaven already.
12 April 2007
9 min 54 sec
A 7.0 earthquake would have been serious in any nation. But in Haiti, it's like chopping off the head of the dead horse... and set it on fire... after skull-f*#$ing it.
And that's the crux of the whole thing. This was NOT a naural disaster. It was a sociopolitical disaster triggered by a natural event.
PS: And I'm sure Mr. Robertson has his place secured in the Empireum, because no way Satan would let him anywhere near Hell —he's not stupid ;)
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
7 March 2009
5 weeks 6 days
More on the exploitation of Haiti:
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2010/01...
here's the beginning:
"You want to hear about chutzpah? You want to hear about sheer gravity-defying audacity? Well, ladies and gentlemen, comrades and friends, prepare to catch your lower jaw. Forget Limbaugh’s racist anxieties. Forget about Pat Robertson drooling about Haiti’s ‘pact with the devil’. He’s a senile old bigot, and his sick provocations are familiar by now. This is the Heritage Foundation on the Haiti earthquake, which is estimated to have killed 100,000 people:
'Amidst the Suffering, Crisis in Haiti Offers Opportunities to the U.S.
'In addition to providing immediate humanitarian assistance, the U.S. response to the tragic earthquake in Haiti earthquake offers opportunities to re-shape Haiti’s long-dysfunctional government and economy as well as to improve the public image of the United States in the region…' "
12 April 2007
9 min 54 sec
Well... I have alcohol in my bloodstream now. So I can take this, baby ;)
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
12 April 2007
9 min 54 sec
I'm perfectly aware that The Daily Show is a satire. But I'm also aware that, in a world where you get such a distorted view of reality from mainstream media, when you expose & apply a counter distortion to that view, you end up with a pretty accurate notion of what's *really* going on.
And for that I thank & admire Jon Stewart.
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
2 May 2004
1 day 15 hours
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
~ * ~
@levitatingcat
22 November 2004
1 day 22 hours
I can't watch that daily show link in Canada, some local channel wants to pitch their ads at me. Canadian media outlets protect their turf.
I read that the government of Germany has pledged 1.5 million euros to help.
That's lunch for every German parliamentarian and their secretaries.
----
No amount of cursing at the round earth will make it flat.
2 May 2004
1 day 15 hours
I read that the government of Germany has pledged 1.5 million euros to help. That's lunch for every German parliamentarian and their secretaries.
They'll just raise taxes, or funnel funds from health & education, to cover that. ;-)
~ * ~
@levitatingcat
12 April 2007
9 min 54 sec
Funny. I can't watch full shows here in Mexico. But I get the other videos just fine :-/
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
1 May 2004
38 min 16 sec
. . . live in cities with great concentrations of Haitian people? I do. I know for a fact there are 'Pet' stores where all the animals sold there are for sacrifice in Voodun rituals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Vodou
These practices are common and widespread regardless of what you may read in the 'popular' media.
The Haiti people have been assisted by outside countries and agencies many times in the past to little or no effect. The Israeli's were involved in a tree planting effort for over a decade from the early 80's to the mid 90's and what was the result? The Haitians cut up and burned the trees as fast as they were planted (after waiting for the guards to go away) so that at the end of all this effort virtually no land was turned 'green'. Many of the hillsides that totally collapsed in this earthquake should have been held together by tree roots from that multi-year effort. Ignorance = Death in this case.
What can you do with a culture like that? Perhaps there is nothing wrong with the people individually, but their culture is certainly worth a bit of inspection before offering a blank check to rebuild. If it is to rebuild to the state of where they were before, where will that lead?
ASM
http://www.wilsoncenter.org/events/docs/...
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
George Bernard Shaw
12 April 2007
9 min 54 sec
* Where exactly do you live?
* Do you think it's less reprehensible to slaughter an animal in order to make a burger, or a fur coat, than to use it for a religious practice?
To be clear: I don't condone the mistreatment of animals. But I'm not a Vegan either, so call me a hypocrit if you wish.
* Do you know why they were burning those trees? I honestly wasn't aware of this, and would like to know more.
I think that you're trying to see all that's befallen on them as a result of uneducation. Yes, ignorance is a malady that needs to be expunged, and not just from Haitian culture!
But to argue that ignorance is somewhat embedded in their culture... I wouldn't agree with that.
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
22 November 2004
1 day 22 hours
The main problem you get with animal sacrifice happens when people believe that it results in some kind of beneficial outcome, and then it doesn't.
When a culture deludes itself with this sort of thing, it can be in trouble.
When your hillsides are eroding and susceptible to landslides due to deforestation, the thing is to plant some vegetation (e.g. trees) that reinforces the soil. This will generally help, whereas torturing chickens won't.
I think the trees are used for charcoal, firewood and such things.
Ignorance and resistance to change can be embedded in some cultures. I don't know about Haiti, but it does happen.
----
No amount of cursing at the round earth will make it flat.
1 May 2004
38 min 16 sec
I live in Miami, Florida. I drive through Little Haiti several times a week. I have lived in Miami for over 40 years, and have therefore been exposed to Caribbean and Latin American cultures for that time and speak mostly fluent Spanish because of it.
I put a link at the bottom of my last post; it has information about the Israeli tree planting efforts, and if you are really curious, you can just type in Israel Tree Planting Haiti and you'll see links.
Earthling got it right when he said they used the wood for charcoal, cooking fires, and construction timber. Was such available? Yes. Cutting down those trees was just so much more convienent.
If you have a strong distrust of the Western way of thinking and have the strong tendency to recolor everything into a local cultural light, it is difficult to make forward progress, especially in a western dominated world.
The illiteracy there is staggering: 45% of the people there cannot read . . . ranked 148 out of 177 countries. Smaller and poorer countries have much better literacy rates so if it is not culture, what is it?
ASM
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
George Bernard Shaw
12 April 2007
9 min 54 sec
Conveniency. That which provokes some people to double-park, or park in spaces restricted for the disabled. We will find such behavior in pretty much every place with humans. It's a tendency to live in the here and the now; in trying to survive today, instead of worrying what will happen in 10, 15 years.
And in a country where the average person has to survive with 3000 dollars a year, this short-sightedness is bound to be more recurrent.
Cuba has a literacy rate of 90% or so; quite impressive compared to any country!
I can't honestly speak if their culture hinders the efforts to educate the population. If only we could have a member from Haiti, or with Haitian ancestry to enlighten us in this regard.
Nevertheless, once again we return to the fact that in Haiti people need to survive in a day to day basis. And also, perhaps the former dictators of the island saw to it that the majority of the population remained uneducated, because that way they would be easier to control —in the times of Duvalier, the secret police used black magic practices, I suspect because they knew most people believed in the power of such rituals, rather than for their intrinsic potency.
Ignorance is Strength.
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
1 May 2004
38 min 16 sec
According to Wikipedia, which is quoting the United Nations, Cuba has the highest literacy rating of any country in the world, with 99.8% of their people being able to read. Looks like some people from Latvia are messing around with the Wiki, as of sometime today Cuba was removed from the list entirely and Latvia put as number one, but you can see yesterday's version here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?titl...
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
George Bernard Shaw
22 November 2004
1 day 22 hours
I think it's quite possible that the secret police foot soldiers believed in the black magic. A lot of the little Stasi types were firm believers in Socialism, which is why the helped persuade people. For their own good, you know.
The folks on Easter island cut down all their trees, and got stuck there. They must have known what they were doing at the time. Did they believe the stone gods would help them?
----
No amount of cursing at the round earth will make it flat.
12 April 2007
9 min 54 sec
Who knows. Maybe some of them were so short-sighted, they were content with obediently following orders. It can happen.
During my professional career (I'm an interior designer, and sometimes I've had to work as supervisor during the construction of a building) I've had to deal with workers that were making a mistake at the construction site.
But even if you asked them to stop what they were doing, some of them didn't give a s*$t, and kept at it. After all, you weren't the (direct) boss of them, and their prime concern was to get the job done (even if it was wrong!) before the day was over.
Some people are just happy with acting like sheep. But that can be found in any country, not just the poor ones.
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
9 February 2009
3 weeks 1 day
about what happened to the trees on rapa nui:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/col...
10 August 2004
15 hours 7 min
I have some good friends who are Maori (from NZ) who visited Easter Island last year. They had no trouble in speaking in their own tongue to the islanders, although these latter spoke a slightly different Polynesian dialect.
My friends startled me by telling me the following - something on which I simply can find no other information - but there is no good reason to doubt what they said.
Apparently, at some time during her reign, Queen Victoria deeded Easter Island to the Scots (don't know how it came to be in her possession, but it must have been so). When the Scots arrived, they firstly shipped 2/3 of the inhabitants off to Tahiti, keeping only a small workforce of healthy useful people on the island. They then had the workforce cut down all the forests along the foreshore to make it easier to bring sheep and cattle onto the island. As these incomers obviously had their own vessels in which to arrive and depart, I guess they weren't too concerned that if and when they left, the islanders were then stranded. Eventually the island was ceded back to Chile.
If anyone can find any further information on this scenario I'd be grateful for some links.
Regards, Kathrinn
12 April 2007
9 min 54 sec
Came across this news:
More here.
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
12 April 2007
9 min 54 sec
The US has decided to bring hundreds of Haitian orphans, while they wait for adoption or their relatives are found.
Read more here.
This, of course, has already raised some concerns from the usual suspects. I honestly think that, regardless of the mistakes of the past, the US government is doing a good job taking the lead in the aid efforts toward Haiti.
Some people are accussing the US of invanding Haiti. The same people, I reckon, who would have been the first to condemn the US if they had remained crossed-armed while the tragedy kept unfolding...
500 is not near enough. Other countries should follow the example set by the Americans.
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie