Burning Qur’ans and the Desecration of Synagogues, Mosques, Churches, Temples and other Religious Shrines is an Unholy Act

Burning Qur’ans and the Desecration of Synagogues, Mosques, Churches, Temples and other Religious Shrines is an Unholy Act

By Fahim A. Knight-El

This writer would ask his readers to just reason with him for just a moment as he evaluate this present day culture of intolerance; thus, on September 11, 2001, the entire world was altered due to a United States Government induced catastrophe, which fostered one of the greatest appeals to the fears of America, in particular and the world in general, and exposed the psychological vulnerability of a spoiled and disengaged people. The United States Government led us down the road of National Security and used the media to paint the religion of Islam and Muslims as terrorist and the natural enemies of the West and was inherently evil (and we needed to be protected from radical Islam). This writer has written on various topics dealing with Islam, terrorism, 9/11, and the value of tolerance, thus, I went back through those various articles that I had written within the last three years and assembled what I characterized as some of the best quotes that I have offered relative to addressing this recent media controversy centered around Reverend Terry Jones, a pastor in Gainesville, Florida and his intentions to burn Holy Qur’ans on 9/11. (Reference: Reverend Terry Jones; YouTube clip

See video
).

To remain silent in this charade renders us all as being complicit, it doesn’t matter whether or not you agree with Islam or disagree with Islam (it doesn’t mater what your faith tradition may be) because tomorrow it could be someone burning Torahs and the Gospel (new testament) as well as desecrating synagogues, churches, holy shrines and temples. We must let Reverend Jones and the world know that it’s wrong and is unacceptable behavior in a civilized society to burn other faiths religious texts. Many interfaith groups consisting of various denominations, clergy and religions have come together to make unified statements condemning this proposed act of burning Qur’an’s as being immoral (not illegal) and to do this as a way of commemorating the ninth anniversary of 9/11 tragedy is totally insane. Everyone with a voice should speak out against this type of criminal activity.

This writer was glad to see President Obama and United States Attorney General Eric Holder, as well as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton condemn Reverend Jones proposed burning of Qur’ans. Reverend Jones ignorance is steeped in the government's version of what took place on September 11, 2001 and he actually believes Muslims were responsible for the 9/11 hoax and it is this duping and deception that have led him to adopt such an outlandish measure of protest. This writer has therefore, pulled excerpts from previous articles that I have written and meshed them together within this article as a response to all this intolerable hatred aimed at Islam and Muslims that have been taking place since the proposed construction of the one hundred million dollar mosque near ground zero.

Why would a Christian preacher seek to burn the holiest book belonging to Islam (one of the three Abrahamic faiths) in which I am of the opinion that the desecration of any religious holy book or edifice should be considered a hate crime and punished under United States federal laws. However, this writer would agree that Reverend Jones has the First Amendment Right on his side (protection under freedom of speech and expression), but where is his ethical and moral compass relative to being tolerant of other religious faiths that might differ from his own and most of all being a Christian Minister of the Gospel; how does this factor into his worldview? Jones is appealing to what appears to be an undercurrent and sentiment that are rooted in a false sense of patriotism and is being highly irresponsible in inciting the good ole boys to commit this type of act, which will be viewed as offensive to over two billion Muslims throughout the world and will reverberate negatively even throughout the non-Muslim world. Reverend Jones has not taking into account the backlash this will have on diplomatic and international relations with Muslims throughout the world and their perception of the United States of America. (Reference: Rabbi Saperstein; YouTube clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTTfB-1UHrY).

He has every right to openly disagree with Islam and I will defend his right as a dissenter to condemn and oppose Islam, but to desecrate the Muslim Holy book will create possibly many consequences and perhaps compromise United States national security abroad and domestically. This is wrong and we all have an obligation to condemn and repudiate this type of action and behavior as being sinister and un-American. Some time these type megalomaniacs are looking to create publicity stunts in order to draw attention to themselves and create a media frenzy which to build their personal statue amongst the dissatisfied group or organization that they are attempting to engage.

This writer took upon himself last Friday to visited the local Muslim Masjid named Jamat Ibad Ar-Rahman in Durham, North Carolina and I kind of went incognito in which not to draw attention to myself, I put on a Muslim fez in order that I might look like a Muslim in appearance; thus, this was during Juumah Service (Friday Prayer) and after making congregation Salat (prayer) the Imam spoke spiritual words of comfort. I did not hear some radical and/or militant version of Islam being spewed, but heard a message of tolerance being spoken from the Qur’an and sayings being quoted from the Hadiths/Sunna (sayings of the prophet) and I must say I left satisfied that these were God fearing people who believed in their religion and were willing to live in peace and harmony with other non-Muslim communities. However, this is not to suggest that there are not vestiges of Islam and Muslims who hate America and all that it stands for, and Jihad (holy war) is their ultimate motivation and agenda (no doubt militant radical Islam is a reality). The Muslims are celebrating the Holy Month of Ramadan during this month, a time to reflect on Prophet Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (Peace and Blessings of Allah be Upon Him) receiving the Qur’an as a revelation being revealed by Allah (God) via the Angel Jabril (Gabriel) which took twenty-three and one half years to complete. Moreover, the burning of Qur’ans during the holy Month of Ramadan (or any time else) will only stir up a hornets nests because it will be viewed as the ultimate disrespect against Islam.(Reference: Imam Warith Mohammed; YouTube clip;

See video
).

Some have come against the Muslims and their having the right to build a Mosque and cultural center a few blocks away from ground zero and have exemplified intolerance toward the project and have argue that the Muslim Americans are not entitled to being protected under the First Amendment Right of the United States Constitution. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf (the Imam and principal leader over the Mosque project) spoke on CNN last night with Soledad O’Brien (very unqualified to interview a mindset like Imam Rauf) and I think he articulated his vision and addressed the controversy surrounding the project to build the Mosque near Ground Zero. The Imam has done goodwill ambassador work in the Middle East and the Islamic world on behalf of the United States State Department (might even be a covert CIA Agent). (Reference: Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf; YouTube clip

See video
).

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, perhaps is an agent provocateur for the U.S. Government and probably is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission and Bilderberger, which means his objective isn’t really about any loyalty to Islam and Muslims, it is more about furthering the New World Order Agenda and globalization agenda; in particular if he is stomping for the State Department. The government views Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf as an asset and will use him and his Mosque to serve their interest, that is the part that most pundits are missing.

The United States Government and the American media after the 9/11 crisis brought the religion of Islam front and center and subsequent to this incident, Islam as a religion would never be the same again. Islam prior to 9/11 had almost lingered in obscurity, in particular in the United States of America. Although, the religion of Islam claims about two billion adherents and is perhaps the fastest growing religion in the world, it’s projected in the very near future to surpassed Christianity as the number one faith tradition in the world.

Thus, as stated above Islam, Arabs and Muslims appeared front and center, as the number one topic of discussion within a nation that had become so ethnocentric and so culturally arrogant—no one outside of our sovereign boarders mattered. 9/11 created a hostile, insensitive and intolerable environment mainly aimed at Arabs, in particular but all Muslims in general, they were being viewed with suspicion and Muslim discrimination was going unabated. The American people perhaps already had some preconceived prejudices against foreign Muslims. Perhaps for no other reason than they were not Christians and some had followed the lopsided reporting of the Middle East conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians—and had accepted the propaganda that the Arab Muslims were bad people because they practiced a “strange” culture and prayed to a God other than Jesus Christ. (Reference: Interfaith Group and their response to burning Qur'ans; YouTube clip:

See video
).

Perhaps there is something innately in us that drives the human psyche to view anything different as being not equally worthy for consideration and more prone to be ridiculed and subjugated by the dominant culture. For example, directly after September 11, 2001 hoax and bombing of the World Trade Center in New York City and it was declared by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the U.S. Department of Defense that Osama bin Laden and his Jihadist inspired movement of Al-Qaeda committed one of worst military tragedies and allege criminal acts on the shores of the continental United States—he was considered to be Muslim and Arab; it did not help that the Bush administration had espoused propaganda, which they intentionally induced and created a climate of fear within the United States that reverberated around the world.

The United States media depicted Arab Muslims as having a political and religious philosophy bent on destroying the West and had declared America their number one enemy. The Powers-that-be understood that in order to maximize their manipulation and deceitful ploys; they first had to create a culture of fear by blaming 9/11 on Arabs and Muslims in their scheme this was a perfect diversionary tactic—they picked a people who were different from the American dominant cultural and with a minority representation inside the country and was essentially powerless. The American people pre-9/11 knew very little about the religion of Al-Islam and the diversity of these ancient people, the religious politics, the various Islamic cultures, the various Islamic sects and schisms, etc.

Although, Muslims from West Africa had arrived to the Americas as captives and hostages of the Transatlantic Slave Trade as early as the 1500s and some historians maintained that the Moors during the 8th Century had voyages to the Americas long before Christopher Columbus, Amerigo Vespucci, Ponce De Leon, Vaso Da Gama, Hernando de Soto, Ferdinand Magellan, etc., and had established diplomatic treaties with the Native Americans in the Western Hemisphere before the coming of the European explorers. But in the late 1800s Muslims and early 1900s Islam formalized it-self and took root as a sub-culture and counter culture in the United States; with the exception of the Nation of Islam as religious movement, Islam up until September 11, 2001 had remained in obscurity, but 9/11 for better or worst changed that dynamic.

These prejudices after 9/11 led to Muslim Masjids and Mosques being attacked and desecrated because there were so many cultural misunderstandings that existed between Muslim societies in East and Christian societies in the West; these misconceptions were shrouded in ignorance and fear based, which was enough ammunition to incite the uninformed and dominant culture zealots who were motivated by racial and religious hatred to inflict vigilante style justice on Muslims and made unfair generalizations against all Arabs and Muslims. Thus, blaming an entire Muslim religious world community for committing a crime that killed over 3,000 Americans—constituting a loss of human life and property.

These vigilante groups immediately began to show their ignorance by attacking and even killing Sikhs and Hindus in the United States ignorantly assuming because these people had brown skin, dressed Eastern in attire appearance, spoke with an accent and wore turbans they had to be Middle Eastern Arab Muslims and better yet terrorist. So Sikhs and Hindus were mistakenly being classified as Muslims and after 9/11 became targets of religious and racial discrimination that were being fueled by the dominant culture. Many of the attackers were not even aware of the historical and religious antagonism that existed between the Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus, but their racism and cultural ignorance led to indiscriminate acts of violence against innocent people who became the victims of bigotry and culture insensitivity.

The dominant culture was fully aware that cultural ignorance would incite and infuriate a segment of our society that would be willing and capable of inflicting violence and creating social discord against a people that looked different and worshipped dissimilar. Many of these people already had negative convictions of Islam and Muslims, but perhaps had never personally met a Muslim, which to make an intelligent and rational decision about their religious culture, race and ethnicity that may have assisted them in debunking generalizations and unfair stereotypes that were being spewed by politically inspired entities. Many Americans had formulated their negative opinions of Muslims from Western media sources and made the ignorant assumption that all Muslims were “terrorist” and had a political vendetta against the West.(Reference: Interfaith group denouncing buring of the Holy Qur'an; Youtube Clip;

See video

Our lack of spiritual development toward accepting and embracing the whole of humanity in all of its cultures expressions; renders us inheritably flawed in the spirit of human compassion and tolerance for all. The failure and unwillingness to make an attempt to comprehend and appreciate the beauty and the differences in people's—language, race, religious belief, nationality, etc., have placed humanity on a reckless, as well as dangerous social path.

The majority of Americans had formulated a negative perception of Islam based on sensationalizing of Salman Rushdie 1988 book titled, “Satanic Verses” in which the majority of the Islamic world viewed this book as heresy and blasphemous of Islam, Muslims and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Ayatollah Rullah Khomeini, the former president and religious leader of Iran declared Rushdie’s book “Satanic Verses” and Rushdie as enemies of Islam in which he placed a one million dollar bounty on the head of Rushdie, which sent Rushdie in permanent exile until the death of Imam Khomeini. Imam Khomeini also called America the “Great Satan” and it was these antagonistic media stratagem that America came to identify with Islam.

If culture is based on learned behavior then American propaganda machines had become the biggest influence and the determining factor on how people around the world, as well as those domestically are being perceived; in particular those deemed as America’s enemies and are their difference being exploited to accomplish a political end. These tactics were implemented to foster distrust and suspicion and to simultaneously falsely create a need and urgency for American patriotism and nationalism based on these perceived prejudices that were concocted within the culture of fear. The ultimate political objective was the old divide and conquer scheme—the wickedly wise could always play on the sensitive charged emotions that go along with culture ignorance and manipulate these misunderstandings to their advantages. This was the case in America with the Muslim community right after 9/11. These types of political fallacies have an even far more ranging implications—these cultural bias eventually would help shape America’s foreign and public policy.

Fahim A. Knight-El Chief Researcher for KEEPING IT REAL THINK TANK located in Durham, NC; our mission is to inform African Americans and all people of goodwill, of the pending dangers that lie ahead; as well as decode the symbolism and reinterpreted the hidden meanings behind those who operate as invisible forces, but covertly rules the world. We are of the belief that an enlightened world will be better prepared to throw off the shackles of ignorance and not be willing participants for the slaughter. Our MOTTO is speaking truth to power. Fahim A. Knight-EL can be reached at fahimknight@ yahoo.com.

Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,
Fahim A. Knight-El

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red pill junkie's picture
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

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Inannawhimsey's picture
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This whole kerfuffle is an amazing example of a non-story becoming a little more of a story via the media. universe works in mysterious ways :)

That future that will include tolerance and compassion for all will necessarily involve people recognizing that what they consider sacred, what they consider to be blasphemy/obscene/pornographic belongs to them and them alone (indeed, all of the thoughts and feelings belong to them and are their responsibility).

Here is hoping for a bright future where everyone respects and follows the Rule of Law (and Universal Human Rights) and resists giving in to their Limbic system :)

---------
All that lives is holy, life delights in life.

--William Blake

earthling's picture
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Certainly Rushdie's book caused a stir in 1998. It is however more accurate to say that the reaction to his book from official people in Iran caused the stir. Without that reaction, the book would have been inconsequential. I haven't read it. I bought another of Rushdie's book, and didn't get very far into it. Not my kind of reading, at least at the time.

But saying that this continued negative view of Islam goes back only to 1998 is downright silly. It goes back to the success of early Islamic conquest, that took over first the southern half of the Roman empire, and eventually all of it. This military dominance by Arabs and Turks in the west was mirrored by other Islamic forces in the East.

As is normal in such cases, this dominance caused antagonism - nobody likes to be controlled, nobody likes to be threatened by a stronger force. On the side of the conquerors, this dominance lead to a sense of their own supremacy, which is pretty normal as well.

This was a big deal back then, and the cultures of Europe, Asia and Africa have a long collective memory.

I don't think it is helpful to view all this as being the result of recent events. The various recent events are just symptoms of a persisting condition.

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We are the cat.

fahim knight's picture
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[quote=earthling] "But saying that this continued negative view of Islam goes back only to 1998 is downright silly."

What was silly: You did not deal with the issue of burning Holy Qur’ans (what is your position on the issue?). The article was based on the question of religious ethics and moral responsibility, which must be conceptualized in the idea of tolerance; in particular if humanity is going to make any real attempt to live in peace and harmony with each other in spite of our racial, ethnic, religious, gender, nationality, etc., differences. I think to desecrate one’s religious text is a compromise of what it means to be tolerant and respectful of a faith tradition that might differ from our own. The article wasn’t about the history of Islam and believe me, just like Judaism and Christianity, it has been just as reactionary, but that is an entirely separate discussion and topic.

Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,
Fahim A. Knight-El

earthling's picture
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There is nothing new here.

There is the old conflict. There is the old run-away symbolism. Burning "sacred" books is a symbolic statements that only works when the the receiving side of this symbolic speech reacts to it.

And react they do, to the point of rioting - although I personally believed those riots are often staged.

What is silly is that this kind of stuff creates a reaction.

What is also silly is taking symbolism so far that it turns into fetishism. If that makes many Islamic clerics silly, then that's what they are.

I did deal with the issue you brought up - this is yet another symptom, it is not the cause of anything. Neither was the publishing of Rushdie's book, nor the publishing of some caricatures in Denmark in 2006.

The causes are in the conflict between cultures that has been going on for a millenium and a half. The popular press says we should be over this, and act like reasonable people. Of course we should, but there are plenty of unreasonable people left, who cannot get over these things. Some of them say things that are counter productive. Some of them organize riots.

Analyzing who did what precisely incorrectly last week, last year or 12 years ago is silly. You won't find the causes there.

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We are the cat.

fahim knight's picture
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You still have talked around the issue, which is the burning of Qur’ans and the antagonism that you keep on bringing up, perhaps was more rooted in the affect that European imperialism has had on Islamic societies, which was coupled by cultural and ethnic differences that that were furthered exacerbated by colonialism. These issues helped create the tension that exist in Africa, Asia, Middle East, Australia, New Zealand, North and South America—although the colonizer is no longer there, but he left his mind amongst the indigenous people. So do not make the criminal the victim and the victim the criminal. What you see is a matter of systemic issues, which is true in deed go back much further than the 21st century. But we live in a contemporary society where we must take personal responsibility and be held accountable for our present actions and behavior and not just use history to justify what is presently unethical and immoral. Ok I am going to come right out and say it burning Qur’ans or any other faith tradition religious text is wrong and reprehensible. What about you?

Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,
Fahim A. Knight-El

earthling's picture
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There are two issues.

Imperialism is one of them. You cannot simply ignore the Muslim imperialism that was very successful for more than 1000 years, and still rules a large part of the world. That, mixed with somewhat more recent European imperialism is a big part of the conflict.

Saying that there has only been European imperialism, and/or that this is the only imperialism that has had negative effects, is ignorant or dishonest, or both. There are plenty of imperialist offenders here. Islamic countries are not only the victims, they are also the perpetrators. The one side view that is popular today, and that you also propose here, is simply false.

Then there is the silliness of people attaching big meaning to the burning of pieces of paper. Making this an important issue gives power to Pastors and Imams who want to control what people believe. I disagree with that, and I do not respect these Pastors and Imams.

We live in a contemporary society that has an ongoing cultural background. Some of out beliefs and habits go back several thousand years. Assuming that everyone will suddenly act reasonable is not realistic.

Unfortunately the silly people I complain about are not inconsequential. Their numbers are great, they have many followers, many of them have money and power and weapons.

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We are the cat.

fahim knight's picture
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I think your simplification of the conflict is to be insensitive to the sensitivity of those who believe in their religious texts as being much more sacred to them than just a burning of a piece of paper. Thus, to even give credence to someone as you have characterized as an act of just the burning pieces of paper, is to overlook what the Holy Qur’an means to over two billion Muslims throughout the world. They accept the Qur’an as the reveal word of God and to them this paper is attached to a higher source that validates and confirms their belief system and for someone to discrete these type text represents the highest expression of disrespect for those who view all manner of religious texts as being divine and sacred. So whether or I not agree with these faith traditions, is not the issue, but I can empathize with those who do and I respect their reverence of the holy texts that represents their faith traditions. I initially wasn't going to write anything on the issue of burning the Holy Qur'an and it doesn't matter whether or not that I agree with Islam or not, but I will stand with my Muslim brothers when they are under this type of an attack. This cowboy (Reverend Terry Jones) thinks he is back during the Crusades and the so-called holy wars, which took place between Islam and the Christian Knight Templars (this is modern society). However, I would take the same position if it was another faith tradition or religious text that was coming under this type of insane attack. The desecration of holy books and houses of worship is immoral and unethical.

Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,
Fahim A. Knight-El

earthling's picture
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I would say that deliberately insulting people and hurting their feelings is ill-advised, and shows disrespect for those people. There is no reason to do this sort of thing.

However, I also maintain that those who are insulted by someone burning their own books are ill-informed. The spirit of the word is not in the paper.

Some little group of misguided people say they will burn some books, that they presumably have bought. Why should that be justification for other people, on the other side of the world, to riot and kill non-participants? That is silly, to put it mildly.

Yet that is what is happening. We should not reinforce this type of behaviour, by expressing respect for any of the participants. This is not complicated, other than that the number of silly people is very large.

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We are the cat.

fahim knight's picture
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Well! Here is the issue, why would a lunatic incite this kind of reaction, it appears less intelligent to provoke violence by committing an act that is totally unnecessary in which could have a negative backlash around the world. Either he is super ego tripping and/or mentally deranged and is more interesting in a publicity stunt rather than caring about the negative ramifications his action could have on Americans and Europeans around the world. Don’t you think, if he did this, he would bear a lot of the responsibility of how this thing could play out on the world stage (even our government from the White House down and the united interfaith alliances have asked him not to do this). This is what you are overlooking, the laws of physics tells that for every action there is an opposite and equal direct reaction. So what affects people at home often impacts people in far and distance lands; Reverend Terry Jones actions is inexcusable and I do not know how and why you keep on trying to justify his irrational behavior. The Muslim world will not take burning Qur’ans lying down and not react to this distasteful and disrespectful desecration of the Holy Qur’an Sharif.

Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,
Fahim A. Knight-El

earthling's picture
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The expressed intention of burning books has already led to violence. Violence against non-participants in fact. Not the actual burning, just someone expressing the intention to do so. How can you describe this by "violence breeds violence" and take yourself seriously?

Of course the Pastor is doing this to show he is a big man with big power. And of course he isn't, his followers are few, and they don't have much to say. He is not someone of much consequence, and that is a good thing.

The responsibility for acts of violence committed yesterday lies with those who committed the violence, and those who told them to do it. Not some two bit Pastor out in Florida.

The acts of preachers telling their flock to react violently are irresponsible. Muslims throwing stones at people in Afghanistan is not a reasonable response to someone insulting them in Florida. It is just plain stupid.

You are constructing a complicated reason for the acts of a bunch of idiots. You should know better than to defend this kind of behaviour.

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We are the cat.

fahim knight's picture
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What I am defending is respecting the sanctity of people’s right to uphold and revere their holy texts in which they should not be subject to desecration. Thus, to burn the Qur’an is an act of violence and it’s wrong. What part of that don’t you understand? This much I agree that two wrongs do not make a right, but why do something stupid and not expect any consequences. No, Afghans throwing rocks, perhaps you do not understand that the United States Arm Forces are viewed as an occupying force and if someone illegally and unlawfully invade your home; I am quite sure you might do a little more than throwing rocks. We have no business in Afghanistan other than stealing poppy plants (heroin—dope) and protecting our drug interest in Central Asia. Thus, no different than the mess we created in Iraq over oil.

Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,
Fahim A. Knight-El

earthling's picture
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What I am saying is that the act of planning to burn a book is not violence.

Actually burning a book can be an insult. It also is not violence.

No books have been burned in this affair at this point in time. However, people have already died in protests of something that has not happened.

Those people are fundamentally stupid, and their religious beliefs are not an excuse for that. Perhaps their religious teachers are mostly to blame. But a bunch of guys who like to act violently are taking an excuse to do that. You can invent complex reasons for that all day, it doesn't make it any less stupid.

This sort of behaviour is stupid when Christians do it, or Jews, or Communists or Nazis. That has happened in the past. Doing it in the name of Islam doesn't make it any smarter. You should get off the moral high horse of Islam - it is not a special religion. It has the same problems as any other.

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We are the cat.

fahim knight's picture
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No Justification to Burning Religious Text. The moral high horse that I am on is that I detest desecration of religious text and I abhor those who find it justifiable to do so. My defense isn't about Islam, but you keep on evoking this as the basis and strategy to hide your agreement with Pastor Terry Jones crazy proposal. You have a right not to like Islam and I have a right to fight for freedom, justice and equality. Once again burning Qur'ans or any religious texts is fundamentally wrong. What gave the Nazis in Germany power and motivation was the world's silence as many nations knew that a tragedy was taking place and did nothing. Thus, today Jones desire to burn Qur'ans, but tomorrow he might decide to burn mosques, synagogues or even other Christian churches. And might even decide to start killing religious people who might disagree with his rightwing theology. Like I have stated before he has every right to disagree with Islam and its theology, but burning Qur'ans has taking the disagreement to the next level. Reverend Jones poses a danger to our national security interest.

Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,
Fahim A. Knight-El

earthling's picture
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Apparently you are one of the people who take symbolic acts very seriously.

This is even worse than fetishism. There are books that have been printed by some industrial printing outfit that you don't know. You don't know if these books have ever been read.

Fact is you don't know if the books the Pastor wanted to burn even exist at this point.

And now you object not to the act of burning actual books, you object to desire to burn these books.

You object to what you think is going on in this guys mind.

And because you object to it, you Fahim, sitting somewhere near the East Cost of the USA, think that justifies violence in some other far away part of the world.

That is really really stupid.

Your "analysis" is directed entirely by the result you want to come up with. That is dishonest.

You are not engaging in analysis, you are engaging in polemic.

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We are the cat.

Inannawhimsey's picture
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fahim knight wrote:

What I am defending is respecting the sanctity of people’s right to uphold and revere their holy texts in which they should not be subject to desecration. Thus, to burn the Qur’an is an act of violence and it’s wrong. What part of that don’t you understand? This much I agree that two wrongs do not make a right, but why do something stupid and not expect any consequences. No, Afghans throwing rocks, perhaps you do not understand that the United States Arm Forces are viewed as an occupying force and if someone illegally and unlawfully invade your home; I am quite sure you might do a little more than throwing rocks. We have no business in Afghanistan other than stealing poppy plants (heroin—dope) and protecting our drug interest in Central Asia. Thus, no different than the mess we created in Iraq over oil.

Dear Fahim Knight,

Are you saying that you think that those people who would be insulted by the burning of their Holy Text do not have a choice in how they feel about it and how they will react to it?

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All that lives is holy, life delights in life.

--William Blake

fahim knight's picture
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The person that is proposing to burning the Qur'ans have a choice; would you agree?

Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,
Fahim A. Knight-El

Inannawhimsey's picture
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fahim knight wrote:

The person that is proposing to burning the Qur'ans have a choice; would you agree?

Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,
Fahim A. Knight-El

Please answer my question. Then we can go on from there :)

---------
All that lives is holy, life delights in life.

--William Blake

toxilogic's picture
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Well you won't like it Fahim but I would like to see all socalled Gods houses, not burned but confiscated and turned into community centers or such. All priests sacked and reschooled as social workers if they so wish. All this on the back of a complete prohibition of organised religion.

Those that still want to read their out of body fairytales (Qur'an), pschycoterror stories (Bible) or maffiacodex (Talmud) in their home, should consider that over time they will be deemed psychologically unstable and unfit to become a true human as they persist to wallow in their victim status.

fahim knight's picture
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Last activity:
15 weeks 5 days

Perhaps you have not read all my threads; I have two or three articles that I have written on the TDG relative to my views on religion; thus may be you should take a moment to read them before you assume a bit to much about my position on organized religion. I think those threads speak volumes of where I stand.

Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,
Fahim A. Knight-El

raptorshaman's picture
Member since:
30 June 2010
Last activity:
1 week 2 days

It saddens me that attitudes like yours exist, but it's a product of arrogance much like the errors of so many of the "devout" and "faithful". If we are to improve the world we live in it won't be by demonizing, dehumanizing and slapping a label of "enemy" on everyone who thinks in a manner we despise.

If radical minds like yours acquire the power to eliminate (by force, presumably) basic human rights as recognized by the UN, and the laws of many nations, rest assured it will be only a matter of time before your own tactics are used against you and your children, and the same self-serving, ego stroking justifications you might now spin to satisfy any lingering questions of morality will be spit back in your face. You sharpen your sword only to hasten your own demise when you stumble and fall upon it.

Tell me, Toxilogic, what makes someone a "true human"? How would one go about joining this obviously exclusive and discriminating club? How much does it cost? Do you take dollars, euros or would you prefer your payments in blood and human dignity? Is formal attire required or can I show up to your "true human" club meetings in a nostalgic Hugo Boss uniform? How do I recognize other "true humans"? A secret handshake? A fancy decoder ring provided courtesy of Cracker Jack and Frito Lay?

Jokes aside, I almost feel sorry for you, your words lack empathy and I doubt you'll ever be able to see the religious as anything other than vermin. You'll never see them as people, never embrace them and simply love/care for them as brothers/neighbors. You may never see the value and often symbolic wisdom hidden in those "fairy tales" or appreciate them as the literary works of ancient cultures. Instead, you seem likely to embrace anger and resentment and through your toxic interactions with the religious, perpetuate the misery. That is your choice, your own personal Crusade. Suffer well, soldier!

While I don't agree with your point of view, I DO wish you the best and I pray it doesn't come at too high a cost.

/soapbox off

cnnek's picture
Member since:
28 June 2006
Last activity:
1 year 16 weeks

Farhim A. Knight,

There are things as disgusting as book burning! But, there is nothing more disgusting than book burning!

What do you think?

cnnek

{You Can Teach People How To Think Critically Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think Critically!!!}

red pill junkie's picture
Member since:
12 April 2007
Last activity:
8 hours 30 min

[...]there is nothing more disgusting than book burning!

Oh? how about the burning of people? I think that is far more disgusting an horrendous —and that's from a person who adores books!

Fahim detests the idea of the burning "holy books", because it constitutes an insult to a person or a group's belief system. But on the other hand, we are talking that "for every action, there's and EQUAL and opposite reaction".

So... is the "equal and opposite" reaction to this desecration the lynching or killing of people? No. The true equal and opposite reaction would be that some guys started burning a bunch of bibles and crucifixes —which would make Qu'ran and Bible salesmen VERY happy, I would guess ;)

In the end, this is a problem of symbolism, and the importance we humans give to symbols.

There have been people in the past who died before allowing someone to desecrate what they thought constituted a sacred symbol. Priests and nuns who were killed by Communists or the SS for not conceding to stepping on a crucifix, or something like that. Nowadays this seems rather silly to our modern western mind, but that's because nowadays we don't give importance to anything.

Are there ideas worth dying for? This I don't know.

Are there ideas worth killing for? I answer NO, but then someone would probably call me a bleeding-heart liberal (meh, so be it).

It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

Red Pill Junkie
_______________
@red_pill_junkie