The Realization of Utopia in one Generation
Posted by dustincole at 18:30, 16 Jul 2010In today’s high tech world, we have at our disposal a medium in which all of the rules, structure, and curriculum of Magick(astrology, tarot, qabalah, skrying techniques, ritual, etc)could be easily combined into a simple fun to follow, easy to disseminate instrument of learning. Video games.
There are literally tens of thousands of video games on the market, with billions of dollars each year being poured into this highly addictive, highly profitable, highly entertaining, niche’.
The most simple way to give human evolution a gigantic shove in the right direction would be to empower hundreds of thousands(even millions) of children/young adults/middle agers with the tools of Magick through an entertaining fun to play series of video games.
I’m not just talking about your average 80 hour play times of Mass Effect or Oblivion games, I’m talking about creating the "Everquest" and "World of Warcraft" of Magick video games. The addicting, I-play-this-18-hours-a-day-for-weeks-at-a-time video games, with a level up engine designed to truly test the Magickal knowledge of the player. Through the simple act of playing the game, the techniques of Magick would eventually settle themselves firmly into the unconscious of each and every player.
Hours and hours, days and days, weeks and weeks, spent leveling up one’s Magician from 0=0 to 5=6 would permanently embed Genius into the population. The religions, consumer markets, governments, and educational systems of the present would soon dissolve away into memory as these tools would begin to manifest themselves in every aspect of society. Big business managers, despotic rulers, school teachers, bankers, college professors, fry cooks, janitors, construction workers, and on and on and on would all be replaced by the video game Adepts.
Israel Regardie believed with his whole being in the value of Magick so much that he dedicated much of the last part of his life to creating a guide for the general layperson to be able to use for self-initiation. He also felt that the average intelligence person was perfectly capable(through hard work, and determination of course) of following a properly laid out plan of self initiation through to the all important Tiphareth level of Self guidance/knowledge and conversation of the HGA. How much more easy would it be to follow that same curriculum through an entertaining and most importantly INTERACTIVE, system of level ups!
It seems to me that any Magickal group who pooled their resources to fund such a project with any number of video game manufacturer’s in the business, would benefit a thousand times over. Like World of Warcraft, the player would be required to pay a monthy or yearly fee. Not to mention the possibility of the nearly unlimited amount of expansion packs available...Wicca, Enochian Magick, Celtic Magick, OTO, VooDoo, Santeria, I-Ching, and on and on ...there's at LEAST a decades worth! Just like any initiatory group, each level would be managed by members of groups who have attained the appropriate or equivalent grades of practice. This would not only open up thousands of PAYING jobs worldwide that utilize the knowledge of the occult making that kind of knowledge marketable, but it would set off a chain reaction of all the other Magickal groups and organizations to follow suit speeding up the evolution of mankind by dizzying proportions.
We worry that our technology might run away and devour us, but that fear is there ONLY BECAUSE AS A RACE OF HUMANS, WE DO NOT HAVE AN EQUIVALENT LEVEL OF SPIRITUAL APTITUDE AS WE DO TECHNICAL PROWESS. By infusing the world with Magick THROUGH THE USE OF OUR UNDERSTANDING OF TECHNOLOGY AND ENTERTAINMENT, we would jump human consciousness exponentially closer to the level of Christhood in less than one generation. It is the easiest, fastest, and potentially the most effective way to save ourselves from the upcoming doom that is nearly upon us.
Now the only problem left is for me to convince the proper groups and associations of the Genius of this plan…
Dustin
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Comments
12 April 2007
12 min 41 sec
Ok, Dustin. explain this to me as if I were a 2-year-old.
You're proposing a videogame platform that would allow users to develop magickal abilities, in a similar way games like Brain Age (supposedly) exercise your mental skills.
Ok, I think the idea is very interesting, and I have also pondered on such possibilities.
Where I fail to follow your plan is in how it would make money :-/
Not to mention that it would also be kind of economically unfair, since in order to play it you would need to have access to the luxuries unfordable by the impoverished masses of the Third World, like an internet broadband connection, or even you know... electricity?
You know I'm a hardcore gamer too, man. But that doesn't cloud me from acknowledging they are a rather expensive hobby —I haven't been able to buy a new game in almost a year :(
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
22 November 2004
5 weeks 17 hours
Forget about making money.
How do these people eat? Someone has to get the food for them. As you say RPJ, how does the electricity get made, and who makes the computers so that they can play?
It is find to develop these skills, but they must be supported physically.
Sure today we can escape into another world of our imagination. But we can't forget that someone makes that world, it doesn't just exist of itself.
----
We are the cat.
7 August 2004
39 weeks 6 days
With more than 11.5 million monthly subscriptions in December 2008,[14][15] World of Warcraft is currently the world's most-subscribed MMORPG,[9][16][17] and holds the Guinness World Record for the most popular MMORPG by subscribers.[18][19][20][21] In April 2008, World of Warcraft was estimated to hold 62 percent of the MMORPG subscription market.
11.5 million players, RPJ. I'm not talking about getting the little pot bellied African kid running around in a loin cloth to play(yet), I'm talking about capturing some of those 11.5 million players of WOW. And no, I'm not talking about a Brainage knock off. I'm talking about a truly interactive Magickal curriculum in a fun to play video game environment. Israel Regardie's http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Golden-Da... combined with an addicting video game.
By raising the consciousness of even 1/10 of those 11.5 million players, and supplying THEM with the tools of Magick we would be super injecting Christ consciousness into the human race. That's all we need to do. Little bare foot African boy would eventually benefit, simply because instead of having 11.5 million deadbeat WOW players, we would now have 10 million WOW players, and 1.5 million brand new Magickal adepts.
Those newly initiated Magickal adepts(across the globe) would begin to use their new found abilities(and SEE WITH NEWFOUND MAGICKAL EYES, FEEL WITH NEWFOUND TIPHARETH AWARENESS) almost immediately, with one or two years of extreme playing. If the average student of Magick spent as much time studying Magick as the average WOW player spends playing WOW, that Magickal student would zoom through the ranks of Magickal adeptship nearly as fast as Aleister Crowley did.
It only takes a small percentage of humans becoming aware to shift global trends permanently, and there is no better platform than the gaming industry to supply that awareness. It already has an enormous following, with the right minds creating a fun and ADDICTING to play game, the lessons of Magick would be a thousand times easier to learn. As of RIGHT NOW, video games are a wasted technology. We have not yet harnessed their globally significant potential. Yet we are SOOOOOOOO close.
Think about it. The one thing about the human race that has NEVER CHANGED throughout history is that we humans want and need to be entertained. We want and need mental stimulation. We have been making and playing games ever since we came down out of the trees. Humans want and need spiritual guidance. We have been creating religions to do this at the same moment we came out of the trees and started making games to play. Humans have created a technology that allows for all of this in one single technologically advanced INTERACTIVE environment.
The trick is to make the Magick game as fun and addicting as World of Warcraft, yet infused with the curriculum of the schools of Magick. Get Lon Milo DuQuette, the Cicero's, Donald Tyson, Donald Micheal Craig, and the Schueler's as advisors and consultants. IF that is possible, then ZOOM. Away we go into global God/Manship. My guess is that as the consciousness of the players of "Magick the Game" began to globally rise, the popularity of that game would catch on and would even surpass that of World of Warcraft. So the measly little 1.5 million would eventually blossom into 10, 20, maybe even 100 million players, and NO ONE who truly understands "Magickal awareness" can reasonably argue that 10 million people raising their consciousness through Magickal awareness would not initiate a human utopia.
Dustin
22 November 2004
5 weeks 17 hours
So you want to start a new religion?
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We are the cat.
7 August 2004
39 weeks 6 days
...earthling. I simply want to harness the momentum of the video game industry to the benefits of Magickal training already supplied by current Magickal intiatory groups.
Dustin
21 February 2009
2 days 17 hours
Dustin,
Just an honest question. Treat me like a 2 year old. What is the outcome of the training process? Just how powerful is this magic? Are we talking real world application outside of just thinking about the world differently? I mean, sure, we can get people to see the world differently and that might even mean they treat it differently, but what would be specifically non-material? The thing that would make this different from just you wanting more people to think the same way you do is real world application. If we all learn astrology and tarrot etc then whats that going to accomplish? Are you expecting better market and weather forecasting?
- I've been on a few projects out in India where we waited around for several days at costs of nearly 1/2 million dollars because the moon was not in the right place to start. This is already getting passed onto consumers. Are you saying we should roll it out wide-scale?
7 August 2004
39 weeks 6 days
daydreamer, Magickal curriculum is NOT a religion or a way to "think like me". The curriculums of Magick have ONE and only one purpose: They unlock each persons personal Genius. You can be Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Taoist, Confucian, Mormon, mechanic, school teacher, engineer, street sweeper, or whatever.
Think of it as a personal trainer for your mind, emotions, sensations, and awareness. There are Magickal adepts from all walks of life, from any various backgrounds, with just as varied beliefs and opinions. It's just that they, unlike most of their neighbors, are learning how to unleash their most perfectly THEMSELVES genius.
Everyone has the ability to be genius, it's just that most of us are so wrapped up in mental, emotional, physical, and psychological problems that we never get to experience that genius. Magick is a curriculum designed to get ANYBODY past those road blocks to human perfection, to be who you were meant to be, devoid all of the neurosis and psychosis of normal everyday living.
Dustin
12 April 2007
12 min 41 sec
But don't you think that Aleister Crowley himself and his ultimate demise (dying poor and feeble-minded due to so much substance abuse) is the emblematic cautionary tale of trying to "zoom through the ranks" of any spiritual discipline that usually demands YEARS —if not decades— of disciplined commitment?
I kind of worry of the potential outcome of unlocking the keys of unlimited power to kids that enjoy corpse humping their fallen foes! ;)
I'm a gamer; and possibly one of the reasons Ilike games so much is because I get to exercise a level of freedom and power I sorely lack in my everyday life. But I know myself, and in some occasions of clarity I accept the fact of why I should never —EVER— get any amount of real power in this world :)
Imagine someone devised a revolutionary system that would allow the user to learn all the secrets of Kung Fu in one year. Do you think that individual would also attain the sobriety and peace of mind that would naturally restrain him from utilizing those deadly techniques ONLY on self-defense?
That, in fact, was one of the arguments used by Ian Malcolm, the fictional character of Jurassic Park, to accuse geneticists of trying to accomplish amazing feats without thinking enough of the potential consequences of their actions — "You stand on the shoulders of giants, but you didn't reach that knowledge on your own".
But the idea of teaching the principles of magick, or finding a way of using the videogame interface to induce an altered state of consciousness is still fascinating. There might be a way in which this could be pulled off.
I concede that I am in agreement with you on this one. Your idea reminds me of the plot of the story "The Last Mimzy", in which a bunch of toys from the future allow some kids to grow their intellect to incredible levels.
I remain intrigued :)
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
22 November 2004
5 weeks 17 hours
It is also important to consider the nature of the laws of games, versus the nature of the laws of nature.
The laws of the games are arbitrary and man-made. The laws of nature are not. Most gamers are aware of this difference, I would assume. Those that are not live in a somewhat delusional state.
Which type of gamer would you want to move on to the world of Magick? Those who don't believe that the game's laws apply in the real world, or the delusional people?
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We are the cat.
12 April 2007
12 min 41 sec
Ok, so there's the laws of the game, dictated by the game developer.
And there's the laws of nature, dictated by —insert option here—
But what about the laws of the gamer's mind?
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
22 November 2004
5 weeks 17 hours
Well, I suppose when the gamer has internalized the laws of the game, he/she can perhaps predict the consequences of these laws given a choice of actions. Then the gamer can pick an action such that the consequences are what the gamer wants to achieve.
If the laws in the gamer's mind are different than the game's laws, the gamer will not succeed within the game.
So far that is no different from laws of nature.
However with computer games that is not the end of it. Nothing prevents the gamer from being a game developer, and changing the rules, making a different game. Many gamers do just that.
Does this work with Magick?
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We are the cat.
7 August 2004
39 weeks 6 days
But don't you think that Aleister Crowley himself and his ultimate demise (dying poor and feeble-minded due to so much substance abuse) is the emblematic cautionary tale of trying to "zoom through the ranks" of any spiritual discipline that usually demands YEARS —if not decades— of disciplined commitment?
Not at all. Aleister, unlike most video game junkies, was one of those rare individuals who possessed a dizzying intellect already. By the time Allan Bennett got a hold of him for Magick training, young Aleister was already well on the road to Adeptship. I did not write this blog to debate the end of Aleister's life however, I was again, only using that as an analogy...and Israel Regardie would disagree with you about the level of clarity and elucidation still present in the old dying mind of the Great Beast, but that's not the point to my blog entry! ;-)
And yes, I AM talking about years and decades of disciplined commitment. WOW is now going on ten years strong! All I'm doing is harnessing the power and entertainment value of video games to fuel and enhance what is normally a fairly dry and often monotonous and tedious system of self improvement and empowerment.
I'm a gamer; and possibly one of the reasons Ilike games so much is because I get to exercise a level of freedom and power I sorely lack in my everyday life. But I know myself, and in some occasions of clarity I accept the fact of why I should never —EVER— get any amount of real power in this world :)
I really must disagree again. Once the Mackical adept has attained what is known as "The Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel", the genius takes over. You deserve personal power as much as anybody else in this world. If at this point in your life you don't trust yourself with power then you, obviously, are not yet ready for it. "Magick the Video Game" would provide the platform to prepare you for that power, through the Magical training provided by tried and true intiatory groups.
Imagine someone devised a revolutionary system that would allow the user to learn all the secrets of Kung Fu in one year. Do you think that individual would also attain the sobriety and peace of mind that would naturally restrain him from utilizing those deadly techniques ONLY on self-defense?
That, in fact, was one of the arguments used by Ian Malcolm, the fictional character of Jurassic Park, to accuse geneticists of trying to accomplish amazing feats without thinking enough of the potential consequences of their actions — "You stand on the shoulders of giants, but you didn't reach that knowledge on your own".
I'm not talking about defying Nature, or using technology to "stand on the shoulder of giants" with knowledge not known by the user. I am talking about using the video game industry as a tool to distribute and teach the Magickal curriculum in more efficient, more entertaining, more up-to-date technologically advanced way.
Unlocking personal Genius is not the same as teaching a bunch of youthful, unrestrained, roughians how to kick peoples a$$. The person who is able to utilize new found power through Magickal initiatory systems has earned it. They respect it because part of initiatory training is the PERFECTION of the whole human, the attainment of the Divine...power to control the ego. Magickal curriculum's are designed to truly teach personal perfection, not just bestow powerful techniques.
Now I'm not saying that there wouldn't be an uprising of chaos during this time frame or that there won't be some people who will try to use the methods of Magick for personal gain but Magickal initiatory systems are safeguarded against much of those lower level egoic issues by teaching about the Self in a particular way as to bring true awareness to the human studying the system. You've got to figure that there are centuries of governmental, educational, and religious barriers to break through, and that alone will create tension between those with the "new awareness" and those who are still in power, beyond what we can possibly imagine...but the outcome...global Christ consciousness, utopia, is worth it.
Dustin
12 April 2007
12 min 41 sec
And yet, MAYBE there's a good reason that system is so tedious and monotonous? to weed out the people not fit for the teachings?
I remind myself of all those years of the alchemist tediously laboring with the matter, burning it and distilling it ad nauseam.
I've often read that mystical schools have such a nonsensical exterior knowledge in order to keep undesirables away and not attract too much attention: Either from the 'rational' types that quickly scoff at the nonsense, or from individuals who are solely in pursue of personal power.
It's said that if you can endure the nonsense, you get access to the 'meatier' stuff.
But I'm discussing this exclusively as an outsider.
Sorry, but once again I have to mention the old Beastie, and his attempts to open a gateway to the other side —without an inkling on whether he could be able to close it later or not ;)
But, like I said, I remain intrigued about using modern technology to facilitate a new awareness. We do not demonize people who need to resort to mechanical means to help them attain knowledge, do we?
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
7 August 2004
39 weeks 6 days
I remind myself of all those years of the alchemist tediously laboring with the matter, burning it and distilling it ad nauseam.
Yes but without their hours of tedium, we wouldn't be able to flick on our TV from across the room, chew a piece of yummy bubble gum, or store food in cans for years at a time. ;-)
WE build on those who came before us, bro. The technology is ripe for a global awakening me thinks.
Dustin
1 May 2004
1 hour 12 min
hello
I have read your blog with interest. I do agree with you that embedding the knowledge of magical curriculums into computer games would enable the player to learn these facts very quickly. What you are suggesting is to make the process of learning into fun and we all learn best when playing.
However I feel that you are neglecting to consider the inner aspects of magical development. Learning all the details and all the forms and then being able to perform a perfect "Lesser Banishing ritual of the pentagram" or whatever is not the same as truly doing it. This is because magic arises both from the knowledge, energy work and the inner discipline which takes time to develop and master. Computer simulations and virtual environments will not really be able to enable this because they are too "right brained" and thus not really a mode of thinking which facilitates magical states of mind and expanded awareness.
Furthermore such simulations are not really conductive to psychic awareness so vital to skrying. Since the arise of the television set we have seen a drop in natural clairvoyance spontaneously appearing. one can speculate that the television floods the visual and auditory centers of the brain preventing inner awareness from arising. There were many accounts in the pre-television age of people looking up from books and percieving an apparition, but none regarding people looking away from from the television set to see the same.
Finally I feel that (perhaps I am misunderstanding you) magic really is not a matter of learning what is in the books and knowing about elements, classical planets, the 72 names of the Shemhameporesh and the 72 Goetic Demons, etc does not make a magician. I feel that (like the paying of fees) the rout learning of tons of facts will hinder rather than help one learn and perhaps (and with respect) somewhat like the caliphate OTO in that they insist on learning the letter of Crowleys works without really learning to expand it and develop it in new ways. It will all become similar to the state of the World at the beginning of "Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell" where England becomes populated with many theoretical "magicians", none of which can actually do any.
As someone who has studied and practiced magic for 25+ years i feel that the first and most importat thing is to learn to meditate and listen to the inner voice and then to really "feel". Combine this with some energy work such as the middle pillar or chakras (but not both). Everything else comes from there. This will open up communication with the subconscious, which in turn will enable conversation with the HGA (which I believe is separate from me, not as aspect of my mind). In turn this will open up different paths.
Very Best Wishes Paolo
12 April 2007
12 min 41 sec
Hi, Paolo. Very interesting comment.
I have a question: do you think it could be possible to devise some videogame (for lack of a better word) that would enable the user to induce a meditative state? and then to "listen to the inner voice and then to really "feel""?
Saludos.
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
1 May 2004
1 hour 12 min
Hi RPG
I am not sure to be honest although personally somewhat sceptical.
On the one hand we do have mind machines which can induce a particular state entrainging the brain to alpha/beta/theta patterns. However at the moment this is through flooding the visual and auditary channels with the correct beats to do this. One may be able to do something very subtle, presenting the player with an immersive environment and very gently modifying the colours/beat in a way which is below the conscious threshold but still enough to gently entrain the brain. I cannot guess how effective this might be, or whether it would do more than just give one a headache.
For something like skrying is the computer is constantly applying the "input" where the the psychic awareness come from and how can a subtle perception compete with the graphics/sound.
My concern though is that in using the easy method of getting a computer to do ones visualisation one will not develop personal ability in visualisation etc. Also suppose it were possible to get a computer to help one have an out of body experience, the computer would take one on a similation of the OBE dictating what is percieved. If OBE's are possible (I believe that they are and that I have experienced them) then I want to go to places which are outside the scope of the computer
Best wishes Paolo
12 April 2007
12 min 41 sec
I understand your concerns, Paolo. As you can see from my early comments, I have concerns of my own, too.
Yet, I really remain intrigued by the possibility of using electronic interfaces to help us develop (re-discover?) those apparently latent potentialities of the human mind.
Imagine coming up with something like this, that would allow the user to easily attain meditative states.
I have also read that gamers are more prone to experiencing lucid dreaming at nights. That's why I mentioned the "laws of the gamer's mind" on my last comment with Earthling.
Whether we like it or not, gamers ARE already re-wiring their brains through constant use of their consoles.
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
7 August 2004
39 weeks 6 days
Those are great points Paolo, so let me take a minute to discuss a few of them. But first let me make it perfectly clear, that I am NOT A MASTER. I too have been a student of the occult for upwards of 20 years now, but am still a child as far as true Magickal awareness is concerned. So pleases understand that these opinions of mine are just that. Opinions.
However I feel that you are neglecting to consider the inner aspects of magical development. Learning all the details and all the forms and then being able to perform a perfect "Lesser Banishing ritual of the pentagram" or whatever is not the same as truly doing it. This is because magic arises both from the knowledge, energy work and the inner discipline which takes time to develop and master. Computer simulations and virtual environments will not really be able to enable this because they are too "right brained" and thus not really a mode of thinking which facilitates magical states of mind and expanded awareness.
Israel Regardie himself said that the actual physical circumambulations made by the aspirant is not the important part of Magick. The purpose of the physical portion of the practice of ritual such as the LBRP is to firmly implant those symbols and archetypes into the psyche of the aspirant. So long as the aspirant can effectively produce the same magnitude of impression in their own mind, the means of practicing this is arbitrary. Once the aspirant-come-magician has mastered those symbols and is able to produce the desired alternate reality in their mind, the actual physical practice is no longer required.
It is my opinion, that hours and hours of playing a video game will be able to produce the same(or similar) internal impressions as physically performing the ritual in one's home. But this is where the Masters of Magick come in. We need the input from the masters of the current magical systems to help incorporate the curriculum into the new video game environment.
As far as energy work goes, there are currently several techniques out there that incorporate audio and video technology into personal energy work...see Robert Bruce's "Mastering Astral Projection" book and MP3's. It wouldn't take too much ingenuity to shift those same techniques and technology into a video game.
Furthermore such simulations are not really conductive to psychic awareness so vital to skrying. Since the arise of the television set we have seen a drop in natural clairvoyance spontaneously appearing. one can speculate that the television floods the visual and auditory centers of the brain preventing inner awareness from arising.
Again, the appropriate quiet time would need to be incorporated into the way the game is played. If the game truly follows the Magickal curriculum, then the level-up process would be able to gauge whether the aspirant has made the appropriate internal efforts, understandings, and realizations. There are many brain entrainment technologies from respectable companies on the market that are designed to produce states of inner awareness in the user...example: Centerpointe Research Institute.
The Monroe Institute has been practicing with and using those technologies for YEARS to help induce altered states of consciousness and astral projections...AND who knows, but maybe with the right guidance and consulting efforts, electronic skrying may be the wave of the future! Who needs a crystal ball? I have my TV! ;-)
Finally I feel that (perhaps I am misunderstanding you) magic really is not a matter of learning what is in the books and knowing about elements, classical planets, the 72 names of the Shemhameporesh and the 72 Goetic Demons, etc does not make a magician. I feel that (like the paying of fees) the rout learning of tons of facts will hinder rather than help one learn and perhaps (and with respect) somewhat like the caliphate OTO in that they insist on learning the letter of Crowleys works without really learning to expand it and develop it in new ways. It will all become similar to the state of the World at the beginning of "Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell" where England becomes populated with many theoretical "magicians", none of which can actually do any.
I completely agree with you, but I'm not looking to perfect the Magickal systems which are most certainly all flawed in one way or another, and I'm not trying to say that every aspirant in every magickal system always makes it to adeptship or masterhood. All I am trying to suggest is that it would be beneficial to all of humanity to put these techniques out there to be learned by an ENORMOUSLY larger percentage of the population than what is currently represented by the Magickal community, and that the video game environment is the perfect medium, already with a big percentage of humanity who allocate large portions of their day to entertaining themselves with.
It is my opinion that this kind of infusion of Magickal thinking into the gaming industry would be enough to set off a revolution of the mind of such monumental proportions that an actual human utopia would be realizable in less than one generation.
I hope this helps to clarify!
Dustin
12 April 2007
12 min 41 sec
This prompts a question:
Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that there are in fact secret brotherhoods in possession of truly remarkable teachings that kindle some dormant aspect of the human psyche.
Let's also suppose that these brotherhoods have been active and occult from the public eye for a very long time; and have attained a considerable amount of material wealth.
So, since the videogames have been around for 30 years or so, the question is: why indeed haven't we seen a game like the one you are here proposing? Surely they would have the material means to hire the biggest game company they could find in order to do this?
Why haven't these secret magickla brotherhoods in possession of these knowledge attempted to disseminate it through modern digital media?
I'll answer my own question by stating that probably these groups have NO intention whatsoever of sharing this knowledge with the public at large. Why would they? Knowledge is power only when it's held by the few instead of the many.
So I wonder what these people, if they even exist, would think of your intentions —I hate of thinking you might have an unexpected visit of some fearsome fellows looking like this ;)
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
7 August 2004
39 weeks 6 days
I'll answer my own question by stating that probably these groups have NO intention whatsoever of sharing this knowledge with the public at large. Why would they? Knowledge is power only when it's held by the few instead of the many.
Keep in mind brother man, that I am suggesting this as a means for the realization of a human utopia. Only in my wildest dreams do I expect any of this is ACTUALLY going to happen.
I am currently in the process of writing a proposal that I intend to send to the heads of every occult organization that I know of, to all of the writers that I can find who have published Magick guides, and even to some entertainers that I know who approve of the occult. I am using my own money to do this, and I'm compiling among others, some of TDG feedback to help ensure I cover all my bases in my proposal/argument. As I said, I don't really expect anybody to grab onto this idea, I simply can not live with myself unless I try with all of my might.
In answer to your question; I don't know why it hasn't happened yet. Just maybe, nobody's thought of it, or taken their thoughts as far as I have. I intend to rectify that. And if I'm laughed out of court, then at the VERY least I've brought joy and humor into SOMEBODY'S life. :-)
Dustin
1 May 2004
3 hours 28 min
Dustin,
In regard to your primary goal, how do you see magick transitioning from the virtual environment of the game to reality? There are plenty of people who play games like WoW, Call of Duty, Gran Turismo, and so forth. I, however, don't see the skills learned in these games manifesting in real life. My friend's kid may have an extremely vague knowledge of urban combat tactics or swordplay, but he's still a wheezing couch potato, not a threat to life and limb.
Don't get me wrong. I'm sure you could make a mint with a game based on this premise (and I hope you pursue it and do so). I just don't think you will see a boost in the number of actual witches or sorcerors.
7 August 2004
39 weeks 6 days
There are plenty of people who play games like WoW, Call of Duty, Gran Turismo, and so forth. I, however, don't see the skills learned in these games manifesting in real life.
Because those games are not intended to really impart any wisdom of any appreciable value. The game that I am suggesting would incorporate an actual Magickal curriculum. The point would not just be an entertaining game, but actual lessons in personal perfection AS WELL as an entertaining game.
Dustin
22 November 2004
5 weeks 17 hours
A couple of points that stand in your way:
One is that in another post in this thread you make it sound as if everyone who has not enjoyed the benefits of your recommended line of study is mentally ill, that being the normal unenlightened state of humans. This will cause people to
doubt your diagnosis.
The other point about gamers being good candidates for this kind of education - what if they don't want to?
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We are the cat.
7 August 2004
39 weeks 6 days
It was not my intention to suggest that non-magickal people are mentally ill. I am only saying that magick is a GREAT way to improve a persons life, health, spirituality, emotional states, thought processes, and just about every other aspect of human living.
As for your second point, whether people actually want this curriculum or not, I say, "lets create the video game and let people decide for themselves whether they intend or allow themselves to get hooked on it or not."
I mean they're spending 18 hours a day playing World of Warcraft anyway, right? ...and there are over 11 million of those people.
Dustin
22 November 2004
5 weeks 17 hours
Well, it sort of sounded like it with the mentally ill part. Certainly it sounds as if most people are in dire need of improvement.
In any case, you have identified a large market of people amenable to the style of game you have in mind. As you point out, these people are quire patient.
So to do this, the game developers would need to know the laws of the game. That would mean the laws of Magick would have to be identified in a concrete way. Not with exhaustive coverage, but enough so that people can see that it is not just another mock-up, another game. Instead they would have to see that these laws apply outside of the game as well.
Are those who are informed about the real laws of Magick able and willing to do that? This can't be vague, hand waving type of stuff, like for example Freudian of Jungian advice. Players would have to get real results, outside of the game.
If the results are only valid within the game, with no verification, it is just more fiction of the fantasy variety. There already is a lot of that.
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We are the cat.
7 August 2004
39 weeks 6 days
If the results are only valid within the game, with no verification, it is just more fiction of the fantasy variety. There already is a lot of that.
As I said earlier, the point of this video game would be not only to entertain through a fun, addicting video game, but also to instruct in the Magickal arts. As "instruction" goes, the level up process(as I also said) would HAVE to include ways to verify that the lessons were truly learned. If the lessons are TRULY learned, the player will indeed, walk away with tools enabling them to be more productive, more happy, and more in touch with their own personal genius.
Being in touch with one's own personal genius benefits every aspect of that persons life, as such, leveling up in this video game would not just be an integer increase in a video game character's level.
Dustin
22 November 2004
5 weeks 17 hours
This could be an interesting exercise, just to define the game. It would reveal how much those knowledgable in Magick are willing to divulge, and able to communicate to people who don't necessarily believe these things.
There would be the normal challenges of automated learning of course, independent of the subject matter. Things like timing, and physical manipulation of objects. For example, I tried some time ago to play a golf simulation game, and was pretty good at it. I had the aim points and the spin on the ball figured out, as well as the distance. But whether I can physically hit a golf ball with one of those funny angled sticks is another question.
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We are the cat.
10 August 2004
4 days 8 hours
The whole idea sounds dangerous to me. Whereas the idea of playing games is fun, the practise of magick is a serious business. Nothing of value is ever gained without effort and persistence.
Also - what a boon idea for those who would like to control our thoughts and lives! How long would it be, should such a programme as you suggest be developed, before those who curently wish to control our thoughts and lives took advantage of the idea and developed their own game/programme which resulted in them gaining an even greater control than they have at present?
Definitely not in favour.
Regards, Kathrinn
7 August 2004
39 weeks 6 days
First let me address earthling again, and then I'll get to your point, Kathrinn.
It would reveal how much those knowledgable in Magick are willing to divulge, and able to communicate to people who don't necessarily believe these things.
It isn't a matter of "belief", earthling. Do you "believe" in middle school education? Do you "believe" in psychology? Do you "believe" that eating breakfast gives you energy throughout the morning? Magick is not a "belief" system like, say, Christianity or Hinduism. Magick is not Harry Potter, or Disney either. Magick is simply a technique for self improvement. A step by step process designed to take a person from "normal human" to "super human". It helps in every single aspect of life, including memory, drive for success, empathy, it helps to improve on EVERYTHING HUMAN.
There are lots and lots of terms, techniques, and tools that are utilized, but you don't have to believe anything at all. Let's take tarot cards for example. Many people who hear the words "tarot cards" immediately think of fortune tellers, 900 numbers, and gypsies who tell you your future. In reality, they are simply a deck of cards that break apart the human psyche into 78 smaller, easy to understand parts. You can think of tarot cards as psychology cards. They compartmentalize the human psyche to facilitate self learning. The three of swords is defined as "sorrow". The person learning tarot then uses that card as a cue to think about what makes THEM sad. The 9 of cups is "happiness", the 9 of swords is "cruelty", and so on. Magick is really not a belief system. It really is only just a bunch of techniques for self improvement...techniques and tools designed to help the user get to know themself better. That's all. Anything that you experience during the process of learning the rules of Magick can be dismissed as rubbish and the system still works.
You don't have to "believe" anything for the magic of calculus to produce some pretty cool physics experiments, you only have to learn the rules of the system.
The makers of the video game wouldn't need to "believe" anything at all. They would simply need to know what the curriculum consists of, and yes, the masters of the system would need to divulge that information to the tech's and programmers who were constructing the interface...and you are VERY correct in wondering whether they would do that. I don't know how that would work, as I said, this is just a thought experiment for me right now.
Also - what a boon idea for those who would like to control our thoughts and lives! How long would it be, should such a programme as you suggest be developed, before those who curently wish to control our thoughts and lives took advantage of the idea and developed their own game/programme which resulted in them gaining an even greater control than they have at present?
Okay, Kathrinn, now for your comment. It is my belief that the video game manufacturers are doing exactly what you are saying. I think they are currently using video games as a form of "technology heroin". Right now video games are useless, time wasting and addicting. They do not accomplish anything except to provide hours and hours of entertainment at the cost of doing anything else that might be productive in the players life.
What I am proposing would teach people that, in fact, what you said is ACTUALLY HAPPENING NOW. A video game that truly incorporates the curriculum of magick would open peoples eyes. It would make the players more aware, more intuitive, more in touch with reality, and less likely to be duped, tricked, hypnotized, or cheated.
A video game that is designed to teach the player the true techniques of Magick wouldn't be able to control the thoughts of the players, and if in the future, somebody tries to control the thoughts and lives of those players, they would now be armed with the tools to recognize that it was happening. Try to understand that Magick is not a "control device", it is a "personal empowerment tool". It makes the user stronger, not weaker...more aware, not more controllable...more in tune, not hypnotized...
Dustin
22 November 2004
5 weeks 17 hours
In one of my past lives, I worked with experts in a field on making software for that field. Most of these experts were quite hesitant to explain how they did things.
Of course often with experts, they can be afraid of loss of control over their field. When something gets automated, they are afraid that customers won't need the experts' services as much. That's pretty universal.
Also universal is the experts claim that letting amateurs run loose with partial knowledge is risky. While that is typically an excuse to protect the experts' market, it is also frequently true.
What I found, in addition to these usual reasons for reluctance to share how they do what they do, is that they don't know.
Apart from being ashamed to admit that, some of them were actually convinced that there was no systematic way. You would have to just look at the situation in its entirety and than an expert would just know what to do. That of course was nonsense, they were quite systematic, but not aware of it.
Considering that the experts in Magick are human beings, probably most of these apply in that field.
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We are the cat.
10 August 2004
4 days 8 hours
I wasn't talking about the current purveyors of video games - they're in the business of making a living. I was meaning forces much more sinister who might see this type of game as a convenient way to first brain-deaden and then implant very unwanted ideas in the gullible minds of those virtual non-thinkers who enjoy spending hours in a useless and unproductive pastime. (No offence intended here to any Grailers who are dedicated gamers - I know these things are winder-downers as well!)
Also, even if the above scenario were not the case, I fail to see how a "game" involving a mouse and a computer monitor could begin to compete with a personal conscious effort to experience "inner space" or "higher realms", however much information was supplied. There is plenty of that information readily available in print form and on many websites if the uninitiated wanted to explore it - but - to gain results would involve dedication, conscious effort and WORK (and a cessation of the above hours of useless and unproductive pastimes).
That, to my mind, cannot equate to a "game".
Sorry - I continue to differ.
Regards, Kathrinn
16 August 2006
1 day 5 hours
I'm in general agreement with Paolo's comments on this.
Although I'm interested in "magick" and some prominent North American practitioners exist within my circles of friends and acquaintances, it's not my primary focus this time around. Certainly some of my favorite activities could be described in magickal terms; I just don't tend to use such frameworks.
I do accept the idea that nothing exists in physical reality that isn't initiated in inner realms, however, and this applies to today's gaming world, with its hardware, software, and endless enthusiasts.
It also applies to all else, including rampant changes in consciousness. These are fed by modern communications, but again, not initiated by them. (Consider how the Internet can be used as a tool for achieving a powerful collective mental and/or "psychic" focus. Experimenting with a group in a chat room along these lines can yield surprising results.)
I can be much more specific regarding the term "changes in consciousness."
This is a kind of expansive change and there are endless routes to it, but anyone who takes any of these will immediately know that something is up -- multiply this experience, have many share this realization with each other, and now many know that something REALLY BIG is up.
In the peculiar subculture of readers of the Seth material, for example, those who engage in some of Seth's exercises experience a significant alteration in consciousness.
A good example deals with connecting with probable selves as in Seth's "Preliminary Probable Self" exercise found in The 'Unknown' Reality and excerpted as the second exercise at http://www.realitytest.com/doors.htm . (See a related expansion on this created by a Seth reader and found at http://www.realitytest.com/intrview.htm#... .)
As with any such teachings, only a small percentage get past the words and arguing about their meaning, delving deeply into the exercises, but even so, Seth's teachings are but one obscure subsection of a very large assortment of teachings -- you still end up with large and increasing numbers focused in such areas.
Once upon a time such activities tended to be engaged in by a very tiny (and frequently hidden) part of the population, particularly in the west, but these days the situation is very different.
Many have concluded that this indicates major inner changes, now in process.
Being glued to a game monitor by itself will only serve to create a slightly different twist on the usual hypnotic condition of everyday waking consciousness; what accelerates the overall changes requires an inner focus.
Such an activity, however, is becoming more and more acceptable under many guises, even while those who maintain a strict outer focus begin to despair that the world is rapidly going to hell in all departments.
Like many, I have to flip back and forth between scanning outer events and dealing with the external world (in my case, the business world, in particular a technology-related subset of it) and focusing inwardly.
Sometimes I get stuck in outer focus mode, temporarily forgetting the nature of external reality; when I do so, the world does indeed appear to going nuts, this process accelerating.
Fortunately, something or someone always reminds me, eventually, of how all of this is but a reflection of something else, something that is very exciting and completely intriguing.
Bill I.
7 March 2009
24 weeks 6 days
I'm interested in Magick primarily due to my interest in musical groups like Coil, and Genesis P. Orridge's projects, so I've seen a fair amount spoken of Magick.
But what kinds of Magickal techniques would this video game teach? I guess I don't know enough about it to be able to envision any sort of game, but the idea certainly sounds interesting.
Also, how do you know that one game would work for everyone? Is there really that much of a consensus on what's "true/correct" when it comes to this seemingly subjective field?
7 August 2004
39 weeks 6 days
The End,
There are certainly numerous ways of performing and practicing Magick. My thoughts are that the first generation of this game would simply be a game involving the tried and true methods of ritual Magick as used and taught by groups such as the Golden Dawn. It already has ready made curriculums and is therefore most easily accessible and most easily DISSECT-ABLE for insertion and fusion with a video game. Not to mention there are numerous published practitioners who could be accessible to use as consultants...
I don't believe that there is such a thing as a "true or correct" consensus of Magick. What I've picked up from the magickal community is that the only consensus is "if it works, do it", in other words if it is successful at causing change to occur in conformity with your will, then it is considered a useful magickal technique. Off the top of my head I can name several styles that are all different, but generally produce successful outcomes...chaos magick, earth magick(wicca), animal magick(working with familiars), hermetic magick, enochian magick, voodoo, Santeria, sex magic(tantra), druid magic, to name a few.
As far as whether the game will work for everyone, my goal is to create a game that would be as addicting to play as say, World of Warcraft which already has more than 11 million players world wide, but incorporate the Magickal curriculum in such a way, so that as the players level up their on-line character, they actually learn real world, real magickal knowledge...knowledge designed to do the exact same thing that being part of a magickal group or community does...
As Dr. Carl G. Jung said, "Magical practices are, the projections of psychic events which, in cases like these, exert a counter influence on the soul, and act like a kind of enchantment of one's own personality. That is to say, by means of these concrete performances, the attention or better said the interest is brought back to an inner sacred domain...this inner domain contains the unity of life and consciousness which, though once possessed, has been lost and must now be found again."
I am of the opinion that this unity of consciousness, this self realization, can be accomplished just as successfully using modern technologies and the medium/platform of the video game industry.
Dustin
10 February 2010
39 weeks 3 days
Magick is just as much a culturally produced mythology as any other religious, or spiritual, dogma you are seeking to supplant.
7 August 2004
39 weeks 6 days
Magick is just as much a culturally produced mythology as any other religious, or spiritual, dogma you are seeking to supplant.
Well lobotomatic, that's an interesting thing for you to point out. While I completely agree with you, you seemed to have made that statement with a bit of distaste. I'm not sure why you've used the phrase "culturally produced mythology" as some kind of fetid swear word. As a society of humans, that's what we do. We are steeped in and surrounded by mythologies...science, religions, atheism, governments, educational systems, all modern mythologies. I don't understand what you meant by your reply.
I'm not talking about supplanting anything. I'm talking about making a video game. You used the word "dogma" but unlike most religions much of magickal thinking is non-dogmatic. You don't have to "believe" anything any more than you have to "believe" in algebra to make calculus and physics work. The truth be told, if you are really practicing Magick correctly, you will be blasting away and getting rid of dogma's and doctrines, not creating them.
But the most amazing part of Magick is all of the tools that are gained through practicing it...and I mean really useful tools that many professionals learn from years of hard work in their chosen profession, such as a trial lawyers increased ability to tell who is lying to them, math professors or engineers who are adept at visualizing schematics and blue prints in their minds, elementary and grade school teachers who have the patience of saints...I could go on and on, but unlike many religions out there on the market, simple hermetic magic puts it's money where it's mouth is and imparts, useful, tangible, real life skills.
Dustin