Is there a big bang inside of us all?
Posted by McGarr178 at 23:10, 30 Mar 2009Hi,
I just wrote a short article explaining how, in a way, there is a big bang inside of us all..
http://phoenix-from-the-wasteland.com/bl...
What do you think?
Cheers,
McGarr
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12 April 2007
19 min 43 sec
I like the idea that we are co-participants in the act of the creation of the Universe, merely by thinking about such things.
Do we have free will, yes or no? I like to think that we are right inside the black box with the poor Schrödinger cat: as long as we are inside that box, we are superpositioned in a dual state of both freedom-determinism.
Anyway, I still like to think of a God big enough to let us make whatever we want, knowing that we will ultimately stick to the Big Plan—in an infinite multi-verse, how couldn't we? :)
The only thing I didn't like: you misspelled Stephen Hawking's name :-P
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
21 February 2009
1 day 4 hours
Interesting.
Reminds me of a book about singularities i read as a teenager.
I'm not sure what reading you have done, but if you get the chance i think it was along the lines of:
The Edge of Infinity: Naked Singularities and the Destruction of Spacetime (Oxford Paperbacks) (Paperback)
If i remember correctly singularities can occur as space-like constructs, time-like constructs and combinations of the two.
Basically when we think of the big bang we think of it happening at the start, but that applies if it was only space-like, if it had time-like properties then it becomes a four dimensional (at minimum) event and happens throughout time as well as throughout space.
Most singularities are hidden behind event horizons, but given the correct circumstances of charge and spin the event horizon moves inwards towards the centre and can become smaller than the singularity, you then form a naked singularity.
I guess you would call the big bang a naked singularity, either that or we are still within the event horizon. Models of our universe existing within the event horizon of a black hole have been tested and failed by the way.
To your article:
Sub-atomic particles are indeed acausal. Bear in mind that entanglement gives a way around the acausality of the uncertainty principle though. I think you can work out the properties of a subatomic particle without measuring it by means of teasing out its properties without causing the probability function to collapse through multiple encroachments on its value using entanglement. The article i got that from might have been disproven now though.
as time proceeded the influence of the initial conditions decreased and the influence of the laws of physics increased.
I would contend with this slightly. It is true that quantum uncertainty ruled when the overall size of the universe was below the plank limit, for sure.
It is believed that unity of the electromagnetic, nuclear and weak forces with increased pressure and temperature inside particle accelerators indicates the unity of these 3 into a super force. Gravity theory puts gravity very close to the point of unity as well so it is thought that all 4 unify into one superforce and that the theory of gravity needs work (i.e. a quantum theory of gravity).
When the universe first formed/expanded/appeared (whatever it did) it expanded quickly and cooled. Quantum forces ruled until it expanded, the superforce split into the 4 forces we know today (the Bosons). Hadrons formed allowing the formation of hydrogen helium etc etc etc. I'll not look it up properly and fill pages. If by the laws of physics increasing you mean the formation of the 4 forces then i agree, if you mean something else then i question it. Once the 4 forces had undergone their phase change then it was physics as normal. This happened in the first few blinks of an eye if memory recalls.
Of course we are talking within the framework of scientific language here, but without it we have none of these concepts anyway and we might as well talk about pizza.
explain the current state of the universe solely in terms of the laws of physics whilst disregarding the initial conditions as non-consequential
I dont know quite what you mean by this. Polarisation and relative temperature of the much vaunted cosmic background radiation is thought to represent a recording of the quantum state of the big bang just prior to expansion. The affect of the acausal nature of the quantum domain so to speak. Study of this record of the 'initial conditions' forms a huge part of modern physics and has been a major part of disproving different big bang contenders.
Another point to make is that the acausal nature of aspects of quantum mechanics is a part of the laws of physics. In no part is anything occurring outside of them, all that is being said is that particles exist as a wave function that is best thought of mathematically as a probability wave and that the precise nature of the particle cannot be known until this wave function has collapsed; typically by interfering with it. The collapse of this wave function is random, but random within very precise rules. It doesnt collapse into a dolphin or anything remarkable.
This bias has reached such a level that some physicists seek to make the initial conditions dependent upon the laws themselves
This is a tricky quote to validate or repute. What do you mean? From all the evidence we have rules played a major part even in the early quantum stage of the universe. As discussed the initial conditions were not dependant upon the 4 forces we know as they didnt exist at that point, but the order in the background radiation gives no reason to suspect that we live in a fly by your pants, no rules as a kid, kind of universe.
This is a contradiction in terms since initial conditions are by definition dependent upon nothing
This depends. Any experiment you setup will have initial conditions dependant upon something. I guess the argument here is that the universe is in some way special.
You have already argued in effect for a time-like singularity though in which case it is conceivable that the initial conditions were dependent on future conditions. I'm not sure that is the argument i want to use though. It hurts my head. I think you'll struggle to find any physicist who thinks there was nothing before the big bang. Many think there is no way we can tell what was before, but that is different. There are many theories about what happened before, some are even becoming testable (slightly) so can at least be disproven soonish, though they rely on previous universes having had effects on this one. I would venture a bet that the initial conditions of this universe in some way depended on the one before it, but no-one knows yet.
there are parts of ourselves and our behaviour that are not determined by preceding events and that is fundamentally free
Possibly, the difficulty here is pinning them down and trying to explain them in a way that is distinguishable from complexity in a neural network or quantum indeterminism/freedom though ever present initial conditions and a time-like singularity.
P.S Are you able to offer up any way of thinking about quantum indeterminism as evidence of a time-like singularity? I like that thought alot.
What was the full quote from Stephen Hawkings? When he starts talking about information and entropy, especially with regard to black holes and singularities it makes my head hurt, especially trying to think of what he might of meant. The full quote would save me brain ache.
15 March 2009
2 years 21 weeks
How do I quote in the neat way you did? I can't see an option for it.
In a deterministic system with no ever-present starting conditions the system will quickly lose information about the starting conditions and fall in to an attractor. Once in an attractor it is impossible to know what path took you there but you can narrow it down to subset. Can singularitys be seen as local attractors?
Random within very clearly defined rules is still random. I'm interested in how this randomness can have an effect on a macroscopic scale.
Is a time like singularity related to fate in any way? Kind of like the omega point?
In a deterministic system with ever-present starting conditions the influx of new information can (it may not) be a force against entropy and attractors.
My definition of an initial condition is one that is not dependent on anything else. I see science as data compressing reality. In any model you have to have starting seed, rules of expanding it (which can be seen as starting conditions as they are also not dependent on anything) - these two combined can generate the rest of the system. There may be many different ways of generating the same system.
I'm trying to draw a distinction between two different ways of generating the system.
1.
inital conditions ->
laws(initial conditions) ->
laws(laws(initial conditions)) ->
etc
and
2.
initial conditions ->
laws(initial conditions) + new initial conditions ->
laws(laws(initial conditions) + new initial conditions) + new initial conditions ->
etc
These are two fundamentally different systems. You can see how in 1. the influence of the laws increases. In the second there is potential for balance.
Yes, there is difficulty in distinguishing between complexity in a neaural network and the effects of acausality but I find the idea fascinating.
12 April 2007
19 min 43 sec
If you want to add quotes, insert url links or other fun stuff, I suggest you to click here :)
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It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
21 February 2009
1 day 4 hours
In a sense you could consider the period of inflation like a universal attractor, perhaps the last universal attractor. If inflation is true though it helped store information about the early condition.
I guess the actual initial condition for this universe is gone. The background radiation can reveal the early condition, but i'm not sure about the initial condition.
Can singularitys be seen as local attractors?
I dont know about the singularity. The gravity well of a black hole can definitely be seen as an attractor though.
Is a time like singularity related to fate in any way? Kind of like the omega point?
That is an interesting perspective, but maybe a better science fiction story than a model of reality. Maybe. I think it does allow for the singularity to affect the present and future though. Fate is usually meant to describe a particular anthropomorphic idea of causality though, rather than quantum physics and spacetime evolution.
Your idea seems to rest on the idea that the initial event consisted of new information and since indeterminism 'creates' new information it can be likened to the reinjection of the initial event. Can you think of any way to tell this apart from just a rule of indeterminism?
From a physics point of view this is new information, but in general we don't consider a random string of variables to contain information. You could call it information, but it wouldnt be good for much. On a human level information refers to non-random data. If consciousness turns out to be quantum (for example) then the fun part will be explaining why quantum indeterminism doesnt scramble it.
The descriptions you identified in your examples 1 and 2 are interesting.
If you want to actually try and see if you are correct you will need to think a bit linearly. I like the idea and especially the science as data compressing reality bit, but i dont think you are right with the initial conditions idea.
If you take something like f=ma (force=mass x acceleration) then it becomes f=ma+Ic. If Ic (for Inital conditions) is quantum, so very small, then we may not notice it in the macroscopic world and it would hold. The problem is that the standard model has been tested to hell in the quantum world in particle accelerators and i've never seen or read (i also did a bit of quantum mechanics at uni) about anything other than normal rules. Certainly no need for an Ic to be added onto equations. There is an exception here though, which i guess you will already see. If indeterminism itself is the result of the injection of the initial conditions into the present (rather than just inherent indeterminism) then it is already in the equations. The problem is that many equations are deterministic.
It is an interesting thought though. Certainly worthy of more thought before putting down.
I once read an example of the universal scale, to put it in perspective. Say we are around 1.8 meters in length. The universe is around 10 to the 30 meters and an electron is around 10 to the -30 meters. We sit roughly in the middle. This is a good way of visualising the universe and its scales. You can see from this that neurons in the brain are also rougly in the middle(ish) so you can see how far the neural complexity idea is away from the quantum idea as well as the size of the bridge to be crossed in explaining macroscopic beings like ourselves using things like quantum acausality.
You can also see why we are as big as we are. The complexity required to evolve beings like us occurs at this scale. The quantum scale is too small, ending up as building blocks for us instead. A couple of orders of magnitude bigger and gravity becomes to great. We are exactly where you would expect us to be if complexity is what is important.
18 September 2007
4 hours 34 min
Some of the most bioactive crystals contain lithium or beryllium trapped in the crystalline lattice. Typically, the sensitive reports a feeling of transcendence, euphoria, bliss, profound meditation when handling these crystals. The more active beryls are phenacite and herderite. Lithium icluded quartz, petalite, spodumene are typically relaxing and mildly euphoric to handle. Some of us speculate that since lithium and beryllium were the first two elements to coalesce after the big bang then it follows that entrapment in crystalline lattices might in a way harken back to primaeval energy states. Experiencing these energetic states might be a way to emotionally experience source energy.