The Ground Zero Mosque & UFO Disclosure
Posted by Henry Baum at 21:54, 18 Aug 2010The reason that the "Ground Zero mosque" issue is so troubling is that it's trumping up the fear of the other. If this is the reaction to the basically-inconsequential building of a cultural center in downtown New York, how in the hell will people react to something like UFO disclosure? What would Fox News do with President Obama revealing that UFOs have been sighted by the military for years. If he's considered a Muslim Marxist now, what would he be considered then - an alien? Don't underestimate people's desire for paranoia. If he can be called the new Hitler, people will believe anything.
If a Republican president revealed the same thing, you'd get a similar reaction from the left-wing base, with people wondering what sort of nefarious plan might be on the horizon - like a false flag alien attack. This is already talked about in conspiracy circles, and for such an insane idea as earth being visited by extraterrestrials, every lunatic idea would be given a voice in the mainstream, much as the media is legitimizing the voices of people who say things like Muslims are evil. If we're being tested for tolerance and how we might react to a radical idea like UFOs, we're failing.
Nevermind first contact and an alien landing on the White House lawn. Like every debate it would become a mess - some would say it's CGI, psy-ops, survivalists would stockpile more guns and possibly turn to violence, the intensely religious would go more batshit - including Middle-Eastern terrorists who would find a new reason to hate us. It would be an invitation to devolve into every paranoid fantasy. Every conspiracy theory would then be legitimized. Even if the alien race appeared benevolent, you would have countless news reports beginning with, "Some say the aliens are here to eat us. Experts weigh in."
I've thought before - hey, people can handle this idea, they can adapt, but now I'm not so sure. People's reaction to the "War of the Worlds" broadcast wasn't entirely absurd - after all, the radio show was purporting to be a report of an actual invasion. But the media turns fiction into non-fiction by treating all points-of-view as carrying equal weight. Witnessing the debate about the "mosque" in New York, I'm beginning to wonder if humans are a long way from being able to absorb this type of information. The media turns normal things into hysteria - because it gives a louder bullhorn to the hysterical than the nuanced. It would turn something abnormal like UFOs into something potentially apocalyptic. Even if the media were smart and careful, large groups of people would do this all on their own. Until we have a better media, and less reactionary people, I wonder if this issue can truly be made public.
So I put this question out there. Is it possible to have UFO disclosure without it devolving into total lunacy and hysteria?
Cross-posted at The American Book of the Dead.
Bookmark/Search this post with
- Henry Baum's blog
- Login or register to post comments
Comments
14 July 2008
20 hours 43 min
Well, let's not neglect that the story that is currently most accepted as truth, is that 9.11 was perpetrated by a gang of violent, radical Muslims. To then see an Islamic religious center land smack-dab in the middle of memory central, is a pretty obvious barn-burner.
A little common sense, please.
Now, if a UFO were to zip by and shoot down an airliner or two, or demolish any number of buildings in broad daylight, your scenario might hold water. But short of that, the connection between 9.11 and UFOs is a stretch at best... and forgive the analogy, a bowl of fruit loops at worst.
All that being said, however, I do have a whole lot of doubt regarding 9.11 that thrives in the fertile ground of that hokey official story. Also, as we have been reminded, those Muslims do indeed have a right to build their center pretty much any place they please.
But of course, just because one has that right to do something, doesn't mean that one must do it or that it is in the best interest to do it. Under the current political climate and again, with the widespread acceptance of the official story, I would tend to think that parking a Mosque in the shadow of 9.11 is just asking for trouble, if not even maybe picking a fight.
"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it."
11 March 2010
23 weeks 4 days
Where in this do I connect 9-11 and UFOs? I'm talking about how the media creates a firestorm. The issue here isn't if the mosque should or should not be built - it's that the media can take a story and blow it totally out of proportion. With a subject as huge as UFOs, it would make the mosque issue pale in comparison.
http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com
14 July 2008
20 hours 43 min
Where in this do I connect 9-11 and UFOs?
Title of your post: "The Ground Zero Mosque & UFO Disclosure"
I'm talking about how the media creates a firestorm. The issue here isn't if the mosque should or should not be built - it's that the media can take a story and blow it totally out of proportion. With a subject as huge as UFOs, it would make the mosque issue pale in comparison.
The media is indeed well known to be ringmasters of information circuses. But in this case, I don't think the media needs to do very much but report the basics. The attention-getter is the subject itself, not the hawker.
Beyond that, it was simply, in my personal opinion, not a very good analogy. And I think I stated my opinion on the subject of the Mosque pretty clearly in my previous comment.
:)
"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it."
11 March 2010
23 weeks 4 days
The issue was virtually ignored until around May when Sarah Palin started tweeting it. Then it became what it did. This is a Fox news issue that exploded nationally.
But I don't want to turn this into a pro/anti-mosque post, so perhaps entering that into the discussion was unwise. However, the UFO issue would be a religious one - it would call into question current notions of religious thought, so there would be the same kind of passion on both sides of the issue. Which is why it can work as a jumping off point.
Just as people are now saying "Muslims are Nazis" they'd say "Aliens are Nazis" or something else. And they'd be given a platform.
http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com
14 July 2008
20 hours 43 min
Were you around back when the KKK wanted to march in Skokie, IL in '77? Yes, they had the right to peacefully assemble but... come on.
I do realize that it has become politically polarized now but the bottom line here is common sense. The KKK knew that it was a largely Jewish community in 1977 and the Muslims today understand all the issues America has with 9.11. Sure, you can force the issue to exercise your right but... to what end? What good becomes of it?
In this instance, I think the media had been largely acting on public demand. In other words, the egg came before the chicken. Also, I think it was after it became apparent that the nation was keen to the subject that the politicals (of all denominations) waded in and turned it into their own.
Cheers :)
"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it."
11 March 2010
23 weeks 4 days
You're sort of proving my point. I'm not going to address the comparison of the KKK with an entire religion.
But do you see how headstrong you're being about this one topic? That's my point. This issue is NOTHING in comparison to UFO disclosure. So if there's headstrong passion about the mosque issue, UFO disclosure would be madness.
Furthermore, "Public demand" might be that we should torture the Greys, or whatever it might be, or to go to war. I'm not really enamored with public demand.
http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com
22 November 2004
1 week 2 days
Really now, you didn't bring this up because of UFOs did you. Be honest. You wanted to give your opinion about the mosque.
----
We are the cat.
11 March 2010
23 weeks 4 days
There's a hell of a lot more I could have written about the mosque. And have, elsewhere. But the UFO issue is something that troubles me, and I thought this would be a good place to bring it up.
http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com
14 July 2008
20 hours 43 min
Me oh my.
The comparison, applied two instances - one current, one historic - where rights are/were being debated but common sense is/was not.
But... you know this, too.
I offered my opinion, gave my two cents. It's Miller time.
"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it."
11 March 2010
23 weeks 4 days
Common sense would dictate that building a cultural center blocks away from Ground Zero shouldn't matter except to people with no understanding of the difference between Islam and jihad. It's "uncommon sense" that's triumphing in this instance.
To try and take this back on topic again - you could make an argument after UFOs land and people go batshit that you could say the same thing - "What did they think would happen? This is their fault."
http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com
18 September 2007
1 day 6 hours
I agree. It would be handled at the whim of the media giants unless they were leaned on heavily by government to tone it down and keep it mellow. I am a minor online crusader for 911 truth and from what I have seen of cognitive dissonant bubbles popping the reaction to something like UFO disclosure might be very ugly. It woould have to be done in slow stages which is actually how it is being handled now.
14 July 2008
20 hours 43 min
You place the entire weight of this issue solely on those who oppose the Mosque, and none at all upon those who want to build it. This is not sense, common or otherwise.
Look, you came in here, apparently, to coattail your Mosque story with the subject of UFO disclosure, assuming that TDG membership would be more inclined to read it that way. When critiqued on the analogy, you immediately became defensive. Since then, it's only gotten worse.
There's really no point to continuing this dialog... but I suspect it will somehow.
"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it."
11 March 2010
23 weeks 4 days
If I seem defensive it's because your first comment said my argument was "a bowl of fruit loops at worst" regarding a comparison I didn't make.
The way I see it is this could have been a step towards healing the wounds of 9-11 nine years after the fact - perhaps they saw it that way, rather than nefariously overstepping their bounds. What they may have naively assumed is not how they were overstepping but how the right wing noise machine might blow this out of proportion.
I want a more open society - fearing all things Muslim isn't a great step in that direction. Even if they were insensitive in the placement of the center, the reaction has been worse (Muslims=Nazis). It's related to anti-immigrant hysteria, anti-homosexuality hysteria, and the rest of the right wing platform. And my thesis remains - in that culture and climate, UFOs would be met with terrible resistance.
http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com
22 November 2004
1 week 2 days
except to people with no understanding of the difference between Islam and jihad
These exceptions do include the Jihadists, do they not?
For them and their sympathisers, this mosque can have great symbolic value. They are not people of common sense.
In any case, forcing the issue and placing a big symbol there is unwise, and there is no particularly good reason to do it, claims to the contrary notwithstanding. Islam is big on symbolism, as other religions. The proponents should understand that, and consider what they are proposing. It is not a good idea.
----
We are the cat.
28 June 2006
9 hours 49 min
So I put this question out there. Is it possible to have UFO disclosure without it devolving into total lunacy and hysteria?
1} With a few exceptions like the scientific community, the answer to your question is 'No' in my opinion. The confirmation of intelligent extraterrestial life forms would knock the stuffing out of the tennants of Christianity and Judiasm. The Islamic world could, however, slide around it; because, the Koran exhorts Moslems to learn about Allah from nature. And, the disclosure of intelligent extraterrestrial life would present itself as another way of learning more about Allah. In terms of Asian religions, it wouldn't really change anything.
2} Personally, it wouldn't bother me if there were no religions and no religious buildings in the world and most of you know that. But, there are religions and religious buildings. So, I say live and let live. Since the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees the freedom of religion and Moslems own the property, I think, to put it politely, that it is very hypocritical for U.S. citizens to object a Mosque being built on the property. Furthermore, the fact that the property is near ground zero is irrelivant, immaterial, and totally beside the point in my opinion!
What do you think?
cnnek
{You Can Teach People How To Think Critically Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think Critically!!!}
22 November 2004
1 week 2 days
First, I don't think we can speculate in a useful way about the reaction of "Christianity" and "Judaism" and "Islam". There is not one of each to react in a uniform way.
Many business people would see this as a business opportunity. Many Chinese leaders would see this as a threat to the unity of China, others would see it as a new opportunity to acquire new technology. The Afghani Taliban would see the aliens as foreign invaders of Afghanistan and fight them. The Pakistani Taliban would see them as infidels and execute them.
Saudis would ask if they need oil, Greenpeace would protest the inconsiderate crossing of empty space without due respect for empty space. Nike would get them to sell shoes.
The world would change, people would be the same.
----
We are the cat.
11 March 2010
23 weeks 4 days
Thank you for that. That's what I'm getting at.
http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com
28 June 2006
9 hours 49 min
Earthling,
Fifty years ago I would have agreed with you. Thirty or forty ago I probably would have agreed with you. Today, I really admire your youthful optomism; but, I really don't share it with you.
Here is a very possible scenario:
1} Most world governments would view the presence of the UFO as a clear and present danger to their national security. As such, they would put their security forces on full alert.
2} The media would hype the presence of the UFO to the hilt and create chaos. The ensuing chaos would evoke religious reactions and make populations hard to control.
3} Many governments will try to impose Marshall Law in order to control their citizens and all hell will break loose.
What do you think?
cnnek
{You Can Teach People How To Think Critically Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think Critically!!!}
22 November 2004
1 week 2 days
...I really admire your youthful optomism;
And I pity your arthritis-motivated grumpiness and pessimism. Seriously, check for signs of physical discomfort, or deteriorating eyesight and symptoms like that. Then go within yourself and see if those things do not cause you to take a bleak outlook sometimes. It is actually quite common, not just in old people.
Also seriously, we are of course engaging in idle speculation about an event of unprecedented seriousness. And then, looking at your 3 steps, you add more speculation at each one. So then we have not just one speculated event, but a chain of 4 of them. The likelihood that things proceed that way is so remote, it's not worth worrying about.
One example that comes to mind is the predicted effect of mass bombings of cities, as politicians and strategists saw before WW2. They predicted panic and desperation among the city populations, and that morale would collapse. Then these mass bombings actually happened, and people reacted quite differently, everywhere.
However in all these cases, not just your prediction and mine, there is a common mistake.
The mistake is that we are assuming a lot about what people and governments would or would not do. And we are assuming that these actions have nothing to do with how the aliens act, or what they would say. As if human reactions would be independent of alien actions.
----
We are the cat.
28 June 2006
9 hours 49 min
Earthling,
1} I'm only about 11 years older than you are and, when I get old, I'll tell you! As it is, I'm still basking in my PRIME!:)
2} There are three things that worry me about the situation today. Firstly, people seem to look for any excuse that they can find to go a little crazy. Secondly, the media, in my opinion, acts very irresponsibly and it both advertantly and inadvertantly encourages people to get wild and go a little crazy. Thirdly, people have too many messianic hopes and, in my opinion, the people will grasp at straws to find a messiah, any messiah!
What do you think?
cnnek
{You Can Teach People How To Think Critically Or What To Think; But, You Can't Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think Critically!!!}
14 July 2008
20 hours 43 min
We cannot dismiss what others think and believe simply because we disagree with them. Even the US Constitution has no purview here because the human heart and mind is the domain of the individual.
Henry, you can poor-mouth the opponents all day long and you will have done nothing... not a damned thing to solve the problem.
Yup, you can claim the right that is yours to build the thing and remain well within the letter of the law... but what good have you and your faith done? How are you representing your god and your beliefs when you walk them all over someone else's holy ground knowing what it will mean?
Legislation and decree are powerless to alter belief and since we do not live in a vacuum, we must either respect those of our neighbors... or expect likewise in return.
"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it."
16 August 2006
1 day 9 hours
I see at least one peculiar connection here, namely the less-than-perfectly credible tale of Mohammed's "ascent to heaven."
More seriously, one way to confound the Sarah Palins of the world would be for the Ketcham article -- see my link to it in my comment on the "What Have We Learned" thread -- to gain major visibility in the world of still-somewhat-credible news organizations.
The facts in the article, if given proper attention, finally, then digested (this is a difficult proposition, because these facts don't immediately align with either set of beliefs strongly held by the two primary camps, that is, those who accept the official explanations and those who feel that "Loose Change" is as solid as an article by a professional investigative journalist and firmly believe 9/11 was an "inside job") would create a case of very explosive indigestion.
It looks to me as though things were more complicated than either tale.
Bill I.
12 April 2007
9 hours 13 min
I'm not a fan of the exopoliticians and those pledging for "disclosure". But I for one think your analogy of the Mosque issue with the possible way in which the media and society would deal with the acknowledging of the UFO reality was very interesting.
Clearly something like UFOs tend to polarize society— but then again, we <3 to polarize on ANYTHING!
It made me think of those poor Raelians who were commissioned by their alien overlords to build a fitting welcoming embassy on Jerusalem. Talk about whimsical petitions! :)
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!
Red Pill Junkie
14 July 2008
20 hours 43 min
You slay me, lol!
"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it."
22 November 2004
1 week 2 days
We should ask them to set up their HQ in Atlantis, it's supposed to real nice and central to all the important stuff. And we would finally know where the place is.
----
We are the cat.
10 August 2004
1 day 8 min
You come up with the most brilliant ideas - truly a wonderful suggestion! As it stands though, we might have to hope that the aliens are amphibians!
Regards, Kathrinn
14 October 2010
1 year 15 weeks
It's a nice thought that the gov will eventually pull their head out of their ass and disclose UFOs, but I don't see them doing it any time soon. Considering that knowledge is power, it's no shocking at all that an over bloated ego conglomerate such as the US government would do everything in its power to keep that knowledge from spreading. All they would get for it is prob three things: less power from the knowledge they just gave up, less power from an already distrustful gov now taking them even less seriously because they've been lied to for over half a century, and less power due to the destabilization of the country from the discreditably of religious ideologies, scientific theories, etc. It could be that I'm just being cynical, but my friend was claiming that he was being repeatedly abducted by a group of greys from his home in Colorado. He eventually got actual evidence of it from his home security system (I saved copies of them ;) here and here, [DELETED] adt alarm system pics ). Not more than a week after he started uploading this pic on the internet, his ISP just stopped giving him service. Gov trying to cover this up maybe? I don't doubt it at all.
[RPJ's EDIT] I deleted a commercial link. I was about to delete the whole message, but I won't —this time (if this is spam, at least it showed an unusual amount of effort).