'Bosnian Pyramid' Doubts

Sorry for the lack of updates, but we have many problems with little time to post anything, plus there are incompatibilities with the software we are using.

Bosnian Pyramid Image 6

Close-up of rock layers at Pljesevica ("Moon").

Robert sent one photo to Greg of a close up of the layers of strata underneath the so-called “stone pavement” to show scale and size. He placed his hammer on the ledge of strata, unfortunately Robert did not compose a proper letter to Greg to explain the graphics as he wanted to show how the pavement is of natural formation and not manmade, but in a subtle way, not just come out and say, “hey, this is natural and not man made.” It is only man made in the areas it seems when it is deemed needed to create a pyramid structure; that is, like a manufactured pyramid. Photos do not do justice, you must see for yourself or be an educated geologist to see how the strata folds and the layers they are calling pavement are of natural stone and not man made block. I hate to break the news like this, we were hoping to send more photos but find it very difficult. The angle of the Pyramid taken from the air was to show the other sides that are not shown, as the only side that really looks like a pyramid is the only picture that is usually portrayed. We have been to the top and looked hard for any evidence of man made or another involvement of ancient origin, and we are not finding it. We have not talked to Sammie about this yet as he is in Croatia right now.

We do not know what to think – well, we do, but do not know yet how to express it without hurting anyone or taking away from any persons’ dream. There will need to be more evidence somewhere to make me believe it is an ancient pyramid, and I will speak little for Schoch, but he feels the same – we have many samples, none of which are showing ancient man made intervention to create a pyramid. I was thinking of the Rorschach test or however you spell it, one person can see one thing and another a very different object form the same picture, but when you use scientific methodology and really understand geology, fault lines, plastics, clay, sedimentary rock, bedrock, breccia ...on and on...you begin to see how time has created a weird picture form one die that can be interpreted as a pyramid, but, well, how can I say it? So far no scientific evidence of a pyramid, and there is one picture Greg has that he did not know what it was because Robert did not write out and compose a letter to explain more properly due to this. So he was very terse in his captions and did not state that the picture of the hammer and the close up of the strata underneath the pavement would explain very much to the educated eye or even the eye of a person who has the ability to figure things out. We are in a difficult position here; I will have to explain later when I am able to write.

You understand my problem with writing, now it is even more difficult with this keyboard and lack of energy. There are many people who are living for this and many people who do not understand what is going on, but are just going with the flow. I am so glad I have been able to see for myself. I will have to wait and write an article – I have taken many pictures. There are many people who believe, many people who know what is going on, but go along with it as it helps the economy. I feel very sad. I feel bad to break the news that maybe there is no pyramid, but I came here to find out for myself as other newspapers were writing contradicting articles and were wrong and rude and too much gossip. I now know, and I feel terrible for the many people whom I must be responsible for easing them into another form of future hope to put their heart into. It is hard to explain, it will be better when I get home.

Yes Kat, I know, I remember about the ice, but there is no ice here for that. It is terribly hot, I must get up at 5:30 AM to start my medication then I meet up at 7 through 9 with the other people or I have drivers. Many things change daily and I do not know what to do until the actual morning. I hope to fly on Monday, and shoot some aerial shots on the video.

Bosnian Pyramid Image 7

Overview of rock layers at Pljesevica ("Moon").

I am very tired. Robert is working on comparing some photos of what we took with another person, and I am here, then I go to dinner and will do some interviews if this man shows up. But I am too tired. It is very emotionally draining in many ways. The tunnels, well, as I told you I had received a report before I left...well the report was not true, I do not know why that geologist would write a false report. I would have never gone into the tunnels if I would have known what they were really like, they could have caved in man times and I told Sammie about the problems with the report, but he had never received it as he told me. So I wonder why would I be sent a false report or a report that does not match up to what the tunnels really are. I will not go into them again, although it was worth the experience, but very hard. I got some video of it.

Also, the inscriptions, the letter E on the famous rock that as found in the tunnels. Well, sorry to tell you this, but those inscriptions were not in the tunnels on that rock initially, I spoke many times with the geologist who first entered those tunnels and found the rock and was in the tunnel many times – those inscriptions were never there, then one morning they just showed up. Now there are more. So, the inscriptions that are on that rock are not true. I hope for the people who thought and wished them to be evidence of some ancient language understand that I am not trying to hurt any one, I am telling the truth. There has been many deceptive happenings here I have become aware of through my investigations. I am to write that up, Robert will write up the geology. I help with half of the geology by pointing things out I see and then I photograph and assist and such, and then discuss and interview. I have talked to many people, so I know quite a bit now.

I wish to get more pictures to you, but they are on my video and on my camera and memory cards, also Robert’s camera, but he has problems with the time to focus on getting things done as there is much demand being placed upon us. Today I just slept, and then tried to walk later and take a break. There were some Germans to come and do some geo-radar, but they were stopped at the Croatian border and were not allowed by Croatia to cross the border with the equipment, or so the story goes...who really knows?

I will meet up with Sammie in another day or so. He is away so I am taking a break from all of this and trying to put things into perspective. I saw much in the newspapers that contradicted other stories – I now see some truths, I see how others have played games, but I see how the newspapers and forums have played bad games and made up stories and used their forums to insult when they should not have. So, I am in a position when I must tell the truth, and I will, I will always keep z integrity and not sell out.

I did hear that Dr Zahi Hawass was interviewed by an ‘Amer’, a student journalist from Egypt. I had arranged an interview with this person before I had left. He showed up last night, but I declined an interview and I knew Robert was in no frame of mind to be interviewed either. So, there has been much going on!

Bosnian Pyramid Image 8

View of the summit of Visocica Hill; in the bottom left-hand corner by the wing of the plane can be seen some of the excavations.

The politics, I mean the real politics of this country are in a way scary. I had this feeling that something was happening with elections and that there was something going on with politics and people in powerful places. I just found out the other day there are elections coming up in September. I met the former president of the whole of Yugoslavia the other day and many other politicians. Well, I wish for Greg to post that picture that Robert sent with the hammer and the layers of strata to show how the pavement is just another layer of natural formation and not that of a side walk or terrace [ed's note: done]. The sections you see are cut out of the side of the mountain and they are cleaned up to look like they are part of a complex, as if the so-called pyramid is being manufactured when they find something they can “add on” to create it. It has changed very much. Also, there were some areas recovered that showed some geological formations that were very important, as they presented evidence that was not in favor of a real pyramid. All of this is difficult for me to write and I can barely sit here right now. I will try to write again. Robert is having problems too, this has affected us severely, all of the weird things, which will take time to explain in a proper article when I am able to express clearly everything that is going on.

But, what you see, just please realize may not be what is said it is, that is all I can say, and I might have said too much all ready – but I am telling the truth. So, please Greg if you read this, will you please post that photo that Robert sent with the hammer and strata so that people can see the layers and the situation with the pavement [top image on this page, click for larger version].

I also thank everyone very much for their support, as this has been the most difficult trip for me this time. Nothing like Peru, very severe and much different. But, I must say, the Bosnian people themselves are beautiful and lovely people. I feel bad for them when the truth will be revealed in the future at some point in time. It will be a very difficult and sensitive situation for me to have to write it out, and I cannot prematurely do it until I fully understand why this is going on. I do understand some of it – and I am shocked – but you know what, that is why we are here, to see for ourselves.

Thank you, I only have to hang on a few more days here and then we move to Sarajevo and catch our flight in a few more days. Thank you for everything, sorry if I hurt anyone, but I must always tell the truth. I will know more later.

Love Colette

Dr. Colette M. Dowell ND
Circular Times
www.robertschoch.net

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argosfalcon's picture
Member since:
31 August 2004
Last activity:
1 year 25 weeks

As an American archaeologist I just wanted to thank you for reporting what you saw and found no matter what. Some may see this as a sideshow but It appears that it has been investigated fairly and I await the conclusion to be posted. So from the great southwest I say stay cool, and keep on saying what you belive.

KatherineReece's picture
Member since:
4 June 2004
Last activity:
7 years 35 weeks

Colette,

It sounds like what Paul Heinrich has been saying all along. May I suggest something? Get out, come home.

bladerunner's picture
Member since:
1 May 2004
Last activity:
3 weeks 1 day

The whole idea had enlivened my life. Yes I'v gotten a bit down about the general state of the world. But that being the case I'd rather know the truth, then be lied to and find out much later, or never. Thank You both for your hard work. Travel back safely. And give us the full report we can take it.

Ronald1's picture
Member since:
8 August 2006
Last activity:
7 years 32 weeks

Hello Colette and Robert,

From the very beginning of this 'project', I was a 100% sceptic. When I saw the first pictures of the manipulated 'steps' on the so-called 'Pyramid of the Moon', my scepticism still grew ..... The famous 'runes' are recent. Well, this is all very sad. Try to make your final report for the sake of the people who believed in Osmanagic, the Foundation and the 'pyramids' to make them see the truth, and forget the whole hoax.

Kind regards,
Ronny.

anesa's picture
Member since:
9 August 2006
Last activity:
7 years 35 weeks

Dear Colette and Robert,

Thank you for visiting and investigating our big dream. I'm very sad about your foundings.

As I saw it few days ago I can not think but there is something man made over there. Maybe not the pyramides. Isn't it something else?

I am sorry to say but can not beleve that few people who worked on it (volunteer) were able and were willing to make the pavements themselfs to convince the others as you suggest in your writing. I talked to them in my native language and could not hear and feel nothing else but a big excitement and a real belief. I see you take an important place in the world of geologists and archeologists but please don't say this kind of things before having a real proof of this beeing done. I don't belive this happened.

I realy understand you have been mislead and found out the things that were incorrect like those scripts in one of the tunnels. And that you are now being suspicious about everything I can understand.
Things like people with professional equipment without good papers not getting in these countries happen. This world is little bit different than USA or EU and these things happen. Does not seem strange to me and is at least something that often happens. At least when they are willing to open my bagage, a bagage of a turist who comes ones a year, and I travel with my Dutch pasport, nothing surprises me any more.

Anyway thanks for your sprit and your help. Tonight I searched on new info about the pyramides and found Robert Schoch's site and found this article. I heard in Visoko from one of the workers of the Pyramid of Sun that an important American Geologist was comming and they were very excited and happy about it. They realy belive in it and are certanly not stupid to think that they can fake it in front of the world's best geologists. There is a belief in a discovery of something big and hoped that your visit wil open the door to Unesco.

As you probably know the official Bosnian Geological and Archeological Organisations have declined the exsistance of the pyramides from the beginning. There where the ones (educated ones) that were saying that this is a dream. The politics (government) did the same.

In the end I hope you wil come with something in your report. No pyramids as understood. Good luck and again THANK YOU.

Anesa

Admir's picture
Member since:
9 August 2006
Last activity:
7 years 33 weeks

Dear Colette,

I have been reading about these "pyramids" for over a year now, and I have to admit, at first I believed that there is something. Now as time is passing by, I can see that the whole thing is just one big charade.

I feel bad for local people there, who worked really hard, hoping to discover something big. They are deceived by a big promise, not only promise of big discovery, but also promise of something that lacks in Bosnia, hope for better future.

The girl who posted before gave her view of the whole thing, and I respect it, but I must say, it’s wrong at many levels. She lives abroad, and as she said, she visits once a year, and probably even then doesn’t read news papers, or talks to people who know more than a "regular Joe".

Bottom line here is that Sam and rest of the crew were deceiving these people. No question about it. At first, as I said I believed there could be something, but few weeks after first excavations, I realized that there is no way that the hill is a pyramid. First they started digging on the "Sun" pyramid, and when they found nothing but a few rocks, they decided to go and dig the "moon" pyramid, where some kid "found" few square rocks. Funniest thing about is that Sam has explanation for everything. "This hole was water source for kings of the area 300,000,000 years ago, and nonsense like that" (Im kidding of course, but all of his explanations fall into that category.)

As the girl, Anesa wrote earlier, there is something there, and if she cared to read little bit more, she would find few things. First, Visoko was capital of Bosnia during medieval times, and there are left overs from their buildings, forts, roads, etc. Also Romans had their forts in that area as well. Im certain those few square stone pavements are left overs from those periods, and everyone who things that they are older than medieval times, has some serious issues. I don’t believe that volunteers purposely cut parts of the hill, to make it look like a pyramid, but im almost certain that Sam, and others from this "archeological foundation" (of fraud, I must add), did point to those volunteers which parts to cut, and how. And if you look at pictures, on almost every picture, there is Sam coordinating excavations, and ordering which parts should be dig out, cut, etc..

I too, as I said before, feel bad for volunteers, and all the people who were deceived, but truth must be told, and has to be told, that’s why, Colette, I truly thank you, and im waiting for the full report, which, if you need, I will translate to Bosnian and send it to all news organizations there.

Again, thank you very much Colette and Robert, and all the best,

Admir

Xtabay's picture
Member since:
10 August 2006
Last activity:
7 years 34 weeks

Dear Dr. Dowell,

I hope you will write a full report of what you learned in Visoko and that this can be distributed to local media in Bosnia.

A small group of people have been valiantly trying to open people's eyes as to what is really going on - I am not one of them though I do admire them. Unfortunately, so far the Foundation has too easily dismissed any critical opinions and mainstream media have failed to research and present both sides, only one.

The people of this country (or at least a part of them) are being purposefully misled and certain individuals are manipulating them for their own political gain... I have followed the events around the supposed pyramid closely and am dismayed at the social pehnomenon that was created around it. After all it has gone through, this country deserves better!

I sincerely hope you will do everything possible to debunk the myths and let the truth be revealed for all to know.

Xtabay

Armin's picture
Member since:
10 August 2006
Last activity:
7 years 36 weeks

Hi! I am Bosnian and cannot stop thinking about this "pyramid" business that is going on in Bosnia. I am not disappointed with the first impressions and forthcoming report (most likely with negative conclusions) by Dr. Collete and Dr. Schoch. It is always useful to have an expert opinion about the topic that most people do not know much about. While I was not in the sceptic camp I was not in the "yes-it is pyramid" camp either. I am trying to put things in some order and it is difficult to understand many things related to "pyramids".
I was in Bosnia in May of this year, past through the town of Visoko, saw "the pyramid" took few pictures and left the country. While I was there I saw few TV interviews with Semir Osmanagic. This is what confuses me most. This guy Semir (from Sarajevo), leave Bosnia during the war (I suppose), go to USA, becomes wealthy (apparently), interested in "alternative history" with expertise in pyramids, goes back to Bosnia, visit museum in Visoko, saw the black and white photos and collected other infos about the Visocica hill ("Pyramid of the Sun"), told his hypothesis to the director of the museum, started "Pyramid Foundation", persuaded few local people that this is a pyramid, obtained permissions for excavations and here we go. Archaeological (or Jurasic!) park was born. Now, if you know mentality of local people you would know that not everybody could go to Bosnia and claim that one hill is a pyramid. I do not come from Visoko, but from area couple of hours away from Visoko and by talking to people I realised that not many believe that this hill is a pyramid. Actually they do not even follow media inflated news about pyramids. I have to admit that my sample was not scientific and was not representative and was too small to generalise my conclusions. My conclusions are based on "expert" knowledge of the mentality of locals (being born, raised and educated in Bosnia and slightly re-educated in Western Europe). If this is a fraud on a large scale (involving political structure), then this guy needs to be stopped immediately and we all need to do something about it. Assuming that this is a "mafia" style organisation run by people who do not have a "dream" about "pyramids" then I must admit their PR machine is impressive. Even EU's High Representative in Bosnia congratulated them on their project and work so far and offers his help.
My question is: " How we can find out if all about "pyramids" is fraud or just naive (and successful) attempt of amateur archaeologist to become famous and realise his dream. Anybody has any info about Semir Osmanagic from USA? He is apparently based in Huston.
To help Bosnia it would be much better that all genuine archaeological, geological, and other relevant experts go to Bosnia, do research and give their expert opinion, negative or positive.

stellarchaser's picture
Member since:
19 June 2006
Last activity:
7 years 35 weeks

dear Collete and mr. Schoch,

as I said before, I was waiting for your assesment, and thank you for giving us proffessional assessment of the site.

I am bit dissapointment (not because there are no pyramids there - they could hardly be expected there in the scale it was presented to us - but because alleged false information and xoaxing all affair).

still, I think it could be very interesting to research the site in proper archeological and geological way, for possible other findings (prehistory, roman times etc).

still, thank you both very much for going there and giving us real picture what is going on there. your trip to Bosnia, no matter how difficult and hard, is of greatest value for all of us that were interested in this thing.

once again, both of you proved that you're real scientists and all I can say that we owe you great gratititude for your unbiased work.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

matt323's picture
Member since:
24 May 2011
Last activity:
7 weeks 5 days

Cool