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News Briefs 23-08-2007

Crayola’s ‘magenta’ has been my favorite color since grade school. According to new research, it’s a predictable preference.

Quote of the Day:

I champion the weak, the poor, the oppressed, the simple and the persecuted. I maintain that whosoever benefits or hurts a man benefits or hurts the whole species. I sought my liberty in the liberty of all, my happiness in the happiness of all. I wanted a roof for every family, bread for every mouth, education for every heart, light for every intellect. I am convinced that human history has not yet begun, that we find ourselves in the last period of the prehistoric. I see with the eyes of my soul how the sky is diffused with the rays of the new millennium.

Anarchist Bartolomeo Vanzetti

  1. Mayan’s Quetzalcoatl??
    Tsk Tsk…

    Let’s get thing right here. Quetzalcoatl is the nahuatl name for the deity adored by the cultures in Mexico’s central valley (the toltecs, the teotihuacans, the aztecs, etc). The mayan adopted the deity aswell, but the name they gave him is Kukulcan. Among the incas, it was known as Viracocha.

    Nevertheless, representations of feathered serpents go back much, much earlier, to the olmec culture, which was the Mother civilization of all mesoamerica.

    It is considered among many scholars that the feathered serpent is intended as a symbol of nature’s rebirth. The serpent represents the barren soil (think of the scales of the serpent as the crack of the soil when is dry and absent of water), and the green feathers represent grass leaves when the soil receives water and nature booms with life. Some scholars also link the feathered serpent with the ancient God of maize, that dies and stays in the netherworld for a time until he resucitates and brings life to the world.

    Getting back to the article, it is interesting that the Biscione is a “grass snake”, and of green or bluish color…

    Of course, the god that is sacrificed and reborn is universal among all the main cultures: Dionisios, Ossiris, Mitra, even Jesus “went down to Hell” after he died to free the souls of the just and ascend them to paradise with Him. It is exactly the same with the god of maize.

    The tombstone of Pakal, mayan ruler of the city of Palenque, famous because Erich Von Daniken interpreted it as an ancient astrounatu riding some sort of rocket, is in fact interpreted by the scholars as Pakal depicted as the god of maize, climbing through the tree of life that is rooted on the mouth of the monster of the netherworld. So in that sense, Pakal was trying to be preserved as an integral part of the cycle of life and death in the world, which is exactly as the mayan rulers view themselves. That’s why instead of the bloody sacrifices that Gibson portrayed in Apocalypto, during the classical period of the mayan culture the most common form of sacrifice were self-inflicted torments that the rulers did to extract their blood. The men would stick maguey needles on their penises (!!!) and the women would pass a knotted rope through a hole on their tongues (!!!!!!!!). That blood was intended to feed the earth so the crops could be plentiful. And the ball game courts were in fact representations of a gap or an opening into the netherworld where the sun would go everyday and fight with the monsters of the deep.

    Check this out

    http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagen:YaxchilanDivineSerpent.jpg

    —–
    It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
    It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

    Red Pill Junkie

      1. No I didn’t
        Who wrote it? What is it about?

        —–
        It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
        It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

        Red Pill Junkie

        1. it is
          It is by Robert Silverberg.

          The storyline is that some computer people (French guys I think, but that is not relevant) re-create parts of the minds of historical figures.

          In that story, Pizarro meets Socrates.

          In a very advanced virtual reality simulation. But the reality is not about physical stuff, it is about their thinking. Then the virtual characters, Pizarro and Socrates, run away from the original intentions.

          It is a kind of alternate history speculation, quite well done.

          I have this on a PDF, but I’m not sure about the copyright rules.

          [Edit:}
          I first read it many years ago, In Asimov’s or Analog. Got the PDF from Fictionwise.com. They will have my sorry ass if I give it to other people.
          [/Edit]

          —-
          You can observe a lot, just by watching. (Yogi Berra)

          1. Interesting
            Any book I can buy on Amazon where this story might be found?

            In my opinion Pizarro is nowhere as interesting as say, Hernán Cortés. Here in Mexico, all grade-school students learn that among history’s bad guys, Cortés was the baddest mother f%&er of all time, that he single-handedly destroyed our beautiful aztec empire and that because of him Mexico was robbed of all its gold, silver and its people enslaved for 3 centuries.

            As you get older you slowly learn that yeah, Cortés came here for the gold and to get rich, but My God! He was a man of great courage! He dared venture and conquer a vast empire with just a bunch of men and horses; in order to prevent his men to retreat to Cuba, he burned his ships so it was either victory or death. That takes a lot of “huevos” in my book 😉

            And in the end, sadly he didn’t became the richest man of New Spain, like Colombus he was turn down and not thanked for all the riches he brought to the spanish empire.

            So Pizarro, in my opinion, was just a copycat. Since Cortés had proven that conquering an india epire despite the number differences was indeed possible, he just decide to try it himself.

            I recommend you guys to read “El Corazón de Piedra Verde” (The heart of Green Stone). It is a very nice book dealing with that time period, and a different take than say, Gary Jennings’ “Azteca” which I liked also. The first book was written by a spanish author so obviously he casts a more “benevolent” light on Cortéz… but it’s a very good book nonetheless 😉
            —–
            It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
            It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

            Red Pill Junkie

          2. fictionwise.com
            Dont know if you saw my edit in my prior post, but Fictionwise.com is where I got the PDF.

            It’s not expensive.

            —-
            You can observe a lot, just by watching. (Yogi Berra)

          3. Quetzalcoatl
            Hi Red,
            I’d be interested to know what the view is in Mexico of Cortez getting a helping hand by the belief that he was Quetzalcoatl returned.

            Reality, like time, is relative to the observer

            Anthony North

          4. Moctezuma
            Well, Moctezuma was apparently a very influentiable guy. And you have to remember that not too long before the conquistadors arrived to Verazruz, there was a comet sighting, and even before that a Solar eclipse, so those were all considered omens that something major was going to happen.

            Quetzalcoatl for some reason that is a matter of hot debate among scholars, was depicted as a white bearded man. Some say that doesn’t really MEAN he was white and bearded but that Quetzalcoatl was described as the White Tezcatlipoca among aztec mythology (Tezcatlipoca was the Black Tezcatlipoca, and YES I know it’s all very confusing and messy!) so the beard is in reality a mask he’s wearing… well, the point is that people expected the gods to be white bearded men from the east, the place where Quetzalcoatl supposedly departed after he promised to return.

            So that definitely helped Cortéz on his quest to conquer the aztecs. The horses they brought, the big mastiffs and the cannons were also very impressive for the indians that fought them.

            But there’s also another thing, and that’s the fact that all the other tribes and nations that joined Cortéz were pretty much fed up with the aztecs, especially the tlaxcaltecas who were the biggest allies Cortéz had on his side. The aztecs and the tlaxcaltecas continually engaged in battles, although the purpose of these battless was not the same we understand today.
            They were called “guerras floridas” (flowered wars) whose main purpose was to capture as many live warrior prisoners as possible, so they could be sacrificed and their hearts offered to the Sun as food. You see, the aztecs view themselves as having a crucial role in the fate of the world, without hearts Tonatiuh (the sun= wouldn’t be strong enough to defeat the night and the lords of the underworld and life on Earth would end.
            The blood of the enemy warriors was the most precious thing they could offer, and to die in battle was the best thing that an aztec could aspire for: the warrior would turn into a butterly or a hummingbird and go live in the paradise of Huitzilopocthli (left-handed hummingbird).

            So that partially explains why, when Moctezuma had died and the aztec people rushed to fight against the men they once believed to be gods, had the chance to kill Cortéz and all the spaniards that were fleeing Tenochtitlan through the Tacuba Avenue (most of them didn’t even die by the arrows or obsidian swords of the aztecs, instead they DROWNED by all the gold they were carrying and refused to leave behind!), instead of exterminating all the conquistadors, the aztecs retreated with the ones they managed to capture them and for days they systematically killed every single one of them, piled their bodies, displayed their skulls and covered their pyramids with spanish blood. That was their way; but unfortunately that helped Cortéz lick his wounds and recover from failure by arranging a siege on Tenochtitlan, and as earthling stated, the use of the corpes infected with smallpox and the contamination of water was the main cause the aztecs surrendered.

            What would have happened if Cortéz or any european hadn’t arrived for another 200 years or so? Possibly the aztec empire would have fallen anyway, their allies coul have joined forces against them and overthrow them. That’s just what happened with all major civilizations of Mexico: they reached a summit of splendor and later collapsed and left their cities abandoned and in ruins, just like Teotihuacan which had been deserted for centuries when the aztecs arrived to the valley, and impressed by the enormous pyramids and the perfection of its monuments, concluded that only gods could have been the authors of such works.

            —–
            It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
            It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

            Red Pill Junkie

          5. Thanks
            Thanks, Red, that was interesting. We can read history, or speculate on the ‘mystery’ of the subject through European written books, but its always good to hear a closer account.
            Initially, I was interested in the ‘white bearded man’ mythology – if you’ve seen my posts on lost civilisations, you’ll realise why – but it was interesting to note that history was gathering against the Aztecs in this way.
            I guess it is always thus in the rise and fall of civilisations.
            Once again, thanks for that insight.

            I’m fanatical about moderation

            Anthony North

          6. Hey, one more thing
            It seems that Hernán Cortés (sorry, I mispelled the dude’s name all along, it is written with a “s” no “z”, what an idiot am I right?) was second cousing with Francisco Pizarro, the conqueror of the incas, on the side of his mother. Guess it was a family thing risking limb and life in search of fame and fortune huh?

            But if you read the enormousy entertaining books of Arturo Pérez-Reverte about the adventures of the Captain Alatriste, all that gold the spanish empire looted from America doomed its fate, made its government stagnant and corrupt and its nobles greedy and lazy. The greatest ambition for any spaniard of that time was to became an “hidalgo” so he could stop working and avoid taxes, that’s why embarking to America was so attractive for all these adventurers. For a hundred years the spaniards were the rulers of the world and the most powerful nation or Earth, but after that Spain collapsed and went into obscurity for a couple of centuries, from which it just came out not until the XXth century after Franco died.
            —–
            It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
            It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

            Red Pill Junkie

          7. history?
            [quote=red pill junkie]For a hundred years the spaniards were the rulers of the world and the most powerful nation or Earth[/quote]

            thats debatable. A lot of written history has been somewhat embelished and biased. But the Spaniards were certainly out there doing their bit to spread a twisted form of religion. The effects are still felt these days.

            “Life can be whatever you want it to be, as long as you do what your told.”
            LRF.

          8. rulers
            Well, rulers of the world as the Europeans saw it. Which leaves aside most of continental Asia.

            But you cannot deny that the Spanish, along with contributions of the Portuguese, started what realistically was the conquest of the planet by the Europeans. That conquest was almost completed by about 1914, when the English, French, Germans and assorted other Europeans proceeded to shoot themselves in the foot. In facct, every available foot, and most other body parts. Didn’t stop until 1945.

            If the English and their cousins the Germans would have cooperated instead of fighting, the Europeans would still own the planet. Probably. Whether that would be a good thing is of course another matter.

            —-
            You can observe a lot, just by watching. (Yogi Berra)

          9. how?
            Can there be cooperation between states whose goal is economic and political dominance? sooner or later your “ally” will stand in your way and you’ll feel it’s best to get rid of him…

            What would have happened if the axis powers had won the war? Could Japan, Germany and Italy have coexisted in peace after they had finished dividing the world among them? Didn’t Hitler have a treaty of non-agression with Stalin, but both were actually COUNTING on the other to try to backstab him?

            In that sense I think he aztecs were smarter than the spanish or other european countries, because their empire did in fact depend on what we would call now “free enterprise”. Rather than amassing huge expanses of territory, whenever the aztecs conquered a land, they permitted the people to mantain their gods and government, but they asked in return two things: a yearly tribute which can be seen as a form of tax, and that their merchants had free pass to the conquered lands so there could be a bi-directional flow of goods between the aztec city of Tenochtitlan and the far reaches of Mexico.

            When the spanish conquistadors arrived to Mexico, there were 2 things than impressed them above all they witnessed: One was the was the great city was built over the surface of the lake of Texcoco; many of them knew the city of Venice and yet felt Tenochtitlan was even greater than its european “cousin”.
            The other was all the exotic merchandise that was displayed in Tenochtitlan’s open market: fine pottery, gold, jade, rubber, feathers, skins of animals and even live ones (Moctezuma kept a zoo in the city with all kinds of fauna), cotton, tints, slaves, etc.

            You could say that the aztecs were among some of the earliest adopters of capitalism 🙂 The dutch pursued the same line of progress and that’s how they managed to become even more powerful than their previous masters the spaniards.

            —–
            It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
            It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

            Red Pill Junkie

          10. Aztecs, Portugal and Netherlands
            Aztecs, I don’t know. They get a bad rap from the Spanish of course. But seeing that a few hundred Spanish soldiers could form an alliance with a lot of those who were ruled by the Aztecs, there was some unhappiness there. I am guessing way before the Spanish arrived. There must be a reason, most likely that the Aztecs were not all that nice. Human sacrifice and such.

            Portugal mostly was interested in trade, and not afraid to fight with even the most powerful for a foothold. The amazing thing is that they won a lot of those fights.

            Netherlands (Dutch, Holland) – saying that the Spanish were their “masters” is a gross distortion. Yes a king of Spain was technically the ruler of the Netherlands provinces for a while. However, this king was not spanish, he was Austrian or German, depending on your point of view. The head of the “Holy Roman Empire”. At the time, the Dutch probably thought that they had annexed Spain.

            The Dutch revolution was a model for the American revolution. First ones to ditch their king for a different form of government. They installed their own king (William of Orange), but that was just for show. The private businessmen ran the show at the end.

            —-
            You can observe a lot, just by watching. (Yogi Berra)

          11. ironic
            “The Dutch revolution was a model for the American revolution. First ones to ditch their king for a different form of government. They installed their own king (William of Orange), but that was just for show. The private businessmen ran the show at the end.”

            Ironic isn’t it? the dutch wouldn’t have reached their independency from Spain if it weren’t for the british, who were enemies of Spain; and the american colonies had a great help in their fight against the british from Britain’s enemy: France.

            You can recognize how closely related the europeans are because of how much they loved fighting among themselves, and with their quarrels they shaped the fate of the entire world for a thousand years 🙂

            —–
            It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
            It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

            Red Pill Junkie

          12. family
            yes it has been a protracted family fight. It still is, if you consider the US and Canada as Europeans, oops, forgot Australia.

            —-
            You can observe a lot, just by watching. (Yogi Berra)

          13. Broader influences
            Good morning everyone,
            There’s been a lot of history here, but you’re often forgetting the broader influences. The first idea of European colonisation came with the Kingdom of Jerusalem, which was what the Crusades were all about.
            Colonisation proper was an enterprise thing, following in the wake of Portugul’s Henry the Navigator and the explorations he funded (interestingly, this guy was half English). The vast majority of European colonisation was fuelled by trade – the East India Companies. Religion and politics came later, although the Spaniards did feel they were the Superpower at the cutting edge of Catholicism.
            Most European wars fall into three categories. First, in western Europe, land disputes with France and England caused by the Normans; and in central Europe, defining what the Holy Roman Empire was. Second, the Hot War between Catholicism and Protestantism. And third, the philosophical differences between English Empiricism and Continental Rationalism, and the two main forms the latter took on the continent – i.e. fascism and communism.
            England didn’t go to war in Europe in this last phase, Britain did – an important difference. We didn’t even want to fight Germany, but with the creation of the German Empire in 1878, it was obvious this new, maninly Prussian power would have to flex its muscles, with its philosophy on its side, and destabilisation caused by the collapsing Ottoman Empire.
            History falls into wider patterns – this is often forgotten. I just thought I’d try to show this in action, putting the above discussion in context.

            I’m fanatical about patterns

            Anthony North, August 2007

          14. english
            I really say English empire as opposed to British Empire for a reason.

            Why could the English not tolerate a strong Prussian state? Or why could the French not tolerate a strong unified Germany?

            No, the fault for WW1 is not the silly Serbian guy who shot some Austrian guy. The fault was the structure of the power system, that would not tolerate change. In particular, the power system would not let Germany have a piece of the pie.

            —-
            You can observe a lot, just by watching. (Yogi Berra)

          15. don’t
            forget all the leaders were cousins…;-{P

            “Life can be whatever you want it to be, as long as you do what your told.”
            LRF.

          16. yes
            indeed, those were family fights

            I place the blame on Queen Victoria. Longest reign of European monarchs, and did the most damage. Coincidence?

            —-
            You can observe a lot, just by watching. (Yogi Berra)

          17. Europe
            Hi Earthling,
            I’m sure our Welsh (born in England but of Welsh extraction and aspiration) Prime Minister during most of WWI would disagree with you if he were alive. Our present Scottish Prime Minister would also find it funny.
            The experiences leading up to WWI, beginning with the Franco-Prussian War, are complicated, and various stances can be grasped from the ‘facts’, usually taking a partisan stance.
            For instance, was Bismarck’s attempted manipulation of the Spanish throne a threat to France, sandwiching them between two fronts? I would say yes, you would no doubt say no. Either interpretation COULD apply.
            Was Britain fearful of colonial losses? Compromise was attempted in 1907 to no avail. We can pick at these facts forever, but I maintain, if you look at the entire pattern, placing philosophy into the equation, the whole period from 1871 to 1989 was a clash of ideas, ABOVE the petty-political squabbles that most people believe is history.
            I think it comes down to, again, a ‘specialised’ mind-set that can only think in a reductionist way, unable to see the wider, holistic, patterns.

            I’m fanatical about moderation

            Anthony North

          18. narrow
            this discussion is getting to narrow, we can’t even put “holistic” in the column. Someone start a new thread.

            —-
            You can observe a lot, just by watching. (Yogi Berra)

          19. I’m tired of squinting too
            This ridiculous narrowing is dead annoying, isn’t it? When the comments get this narrow, I usually have to copy them into an email form in order to comprehend them. I just noticed that when I clicked on reply, the comment showed up wider, making it much easier to read.

            It’s hard enough to get a decent discussion going without this additional roadblock.

            I just sent Greg an email asking if something could be done about it. He said something about a 500 pixel limit, and suggested we switch to ‘threaded-collapsed’.

            Kat

          20. Could it be…
            The fall of the Berlin wall and Perestroika?

            —–
            It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
            It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

            Red Pill Junkie

          21. nice guys
            yes the spanish conquistadors were thieves and murderors. But really, they just replaces a bunch of thieves and murderors as the ruling class.

            Brought some bad bacteria with them too. Which is what was the real problem for the locals.

            —-
            You can observe a lot, just by watching. (Yogi Berra)

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