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Moses and Psychedelics Poll

After numerous requests, I’ve changed the poll over (down the side column a little). To remain topical with today’s story about Moses and ayahuasca, I’m asking a simple yes/no question: do you think Moses and other Biblical identities used psychedelics in order to see their visions? Reading through Benny Shanon’s paper “Biblical Entheogens: A Speculative Hypothesis” should give you some background…also consider the literature, and shamanistic techniques from other parts of the world.

A simple yes or no, because I’m just asking for your opinion….

Editor
  1. I dunno…
    It is a fascinating theory, and I’m aware of the use of sacred power plants all over the world… but I guess I’m just not ready to consider that the Ark of the Covenant was the luxury box where Moses kept his stash hidden! 🙂

    I mean, Moses is also the guy who supposedly wrote (or ilegally copied, making him a paleo Napster of sorts) the Genesis along with the other 4 books that constitute the Torah. And reading the account of the Genesis and the result of eating from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good & evil seems almost like the very first banning against illegal substances:

    “This is your brain… and this is your brain, kicked out of Eden, along with your butt!”

    Sacred plants are (when used correctly) excellent tools to attain states of non-ordinary reality. But they sure aren’t the ONLY ones. There’s also sensory isolation, which I often wonder if that was not at least one of the uses of the Great Pyramid and the King’s Chamber… There are also special places where geo-magnetic forces could affect the brain and pineal gland of human beings.

    I once read an underground mexican comic that said “No hace falta mota pa’ volar” (you don’t need weed to fly), and I believe that is correct. Even Castañeda wrote in his later books that power plants were only advisable to be used as a means o “jolt” the body, when a person was too thick-headed to “silence the world” by any other method!

    —–
    It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
    It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

    Red Pill Junkie

  2. try this
    Go into the desert, don’t eat, don’t drink for a few days.

    Then look straight into the sun for a while.

    You will have visions.

    —-
    wherever you go, there you are

    1. Good point
      There are other ways to have visions. Fasting, dancing (Moses would have known of dervish dancers) can induce visions just as powerful as hallucinogenic plants.

      What about Soma, the hallucinogenic drink taken most notably by the Ancient Greeks but also Persians and India? Or Datura, a trumpet-shaped flower widely taken in India and throughout the world? Egyptian Pharaohs were also quite fond of mushrooms, so much so that commoners were forbidden from eating them.

      Plenty of evidence for hallucinogenic plant use in Biblical times, so I don’t know why Shanon is looking for an obscure hallucinogenic plant in a small area when Moses was well-travelled.

      1. The article
        [quote=Rick MG]Plenty of evidence for hallucinogenic plant use in Biblical times, so I don’t know why Shanon is looking for an obscure hallucinogenic plant in a small area when Moses was well-travelled. [/quote]

        Going by the article, it is because the statements of Biblical identities matches up very closely to the phenomenology of the ayahuasca experience.

        Kind regards,
        Greg
        ——————————————-
        You monkeys only think you’re running things

    1. Shamanism and Drugs
      Good morning everyone,
      The chances of most shamanistic ritual involving drugs is, I suppose, quite high. But to me, it would just be one area together with the others listed above. I suppose I think holistically, with many possibilities behind something. It is the accumulation of ‘somethings’ that add up to the experience.
      I sometimes wonder if the fascination with ancient shamanism and drugs tells us more about our present culture than theirs.

      I’m fanatical about moderation

      Anthony North

  3. Moses
    No reason to believe that Moses was a historical figure, any more than we can believe in the parting of the Red Sea etc.

    I thought it was generally accepted in biblical study circles that 4 sources are implicated in fashioning the 5 books, which were traditionally ascribed to Moses.

    Any way, all religion is based upon altered states of consciousness, but these don’t necessarily require the use of hallucinogens.

    It’s plausible that cannabis is the fragrant cane of the NIV, used in massive quantities for holy anointing oil. Also somewhat plausible that the breakaway Jesus cult might have revived the use of entheogens.

  4. Hell, I don’t need drugs
    No, I do not think it is necessary to take drugs and for anyone who wishes a real high — one that is deep and true, all you need are the onboard chemicals already held within your own mentality. I have gone everywhere in the universe with my own vehicle. I firmly believe it is a cop-out to use anything other than your own meditative wisdom to see the other side of existence. I have had 25 euphoric experiences via meditation. I go to nature and get away from humanity and its noise. I sit and listen to the sounds of “just being here” to expedite my tumble into white light. If one does this for at least two hours a flash of white light will come over you and you will be fed data on an extraordinary level. You will see and be in a place not known on earth. The information is such that you do not want to return to life as you once knew it. It is indeed the most powerful experience I have ever had. I know it is there and I did not need drugs to get there…I used what I had onboard. It is a pure experience without impacting anyone else, or doing something illegal or harmful to my Holy Temple. It is God Given.

    I think that those who wish some corroboration of their illegal habits wish they could make their actions OK and legal — they do wish to put others down…but it is true that one can accomplish much if they seek in purity of heart and mind to go where few have been before — Home.

    1. I understand…
      Silence
      It rings through the wind
      Whipping my body
      Poseidon!
      Poseidon!
      Take me!
      I am for you.
      What is silver
      is cold
      King Triton!
      King Triton!
      Take me!
      I am for you.
      What is cold
      is silver
      This world
      I was not meant for it
      But still I’m here
      Enslaved to the power
      Never to be set free
      Poseidon!
      King Triton!
      Tell me what you wish for me

  5. pundamentalist feels the answer is somannafest
    I’m surprised at the absence of manna in all this theorizing,
    please take note of this link for more info or just wiki manna
    http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=10494
    what else comes with the morning dew, melts and rots in the sun ,follows your tribes cattle (in bullshit),can be dried crushed baked with bread or stored in golden pots of honey, oh and it will (according to moses)”prove you, whether you walk in my law or no” .
    yes of course there are many ways of altering consciousness but some are alot quicker and more powerful, and regarding the safety issues; even meditation is not encouraged by psychiatrists when the patient is in possession of latent or present psychological disorder.

  6. Another Theory
    Considering the complete lack of evidence to support….well, anything, I’ll throw one more theory into the ring: God talked to Moses. Yeah, I know, kinda boring. But at least this theory has this cool book that talks about it.

    ————————————–
    My apologies go out to all who were just offended by this hostile, confrontational and completely unreasonable post.

    1. Well, at least SOMETHING talked to Moses…
      Because, frankly, I HATE the way Jehova acts in the whole Exodus book.

      Yes, that’s right: I HATE Jehova.

      Which is something compeltely different from the idea of ‘Abbá’ that the Christ tried to found (or restore, your pick) among men.

      —–
      It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
      It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

      Red Pill Junkie

        1. He He, perhaps 🙂
          All those days inhaling the fumes of burning animals and incense at the temple, might have had unprecedented side-effects 😉

          —–
          It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
          It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

          Red Pill Junkie

  7. Experts in Informal Fallacy and practitioners of Non-sequiturs
    I see we have lots of former High School Students here who were experts at getting their way. Nice work guys…you make yourselves look so much better than the Christians… Right out the back door (The fact that you are even here should create some awe in you but I guess you created yourself did you not?)

    I know, your mom and dad did

    GB

  8. The mirror which doesn’t shine….
    Reading through the exodus and looking at all the encounters between Moses and god it is clear that there a real “dialogue” between the two of them. The ark of the covenant becomes the primary communication device. Num 7:89
    “Now when Moses went into 1 the tent of meeting to speak with the Lord, 2 he heard the voice speaking to him from above the atonement lid 3 that was on the ark of the testimony, from between the two cherubim. 4 Thus he spoke to him” So in order to have a “vision”, Moses needed to approach the ark.The “Sohar” mentiones that Moses had difficulties to understand the construction plans for the ark.”When the Holy One, blessed be He told Moses to construct the Tabernacle, Moses was dumbfounded, for he did not know what to do, until the Holy One, blessed be He showed him how it looked, as it is written” It goes then on to describe a mysterious device, a mirror that seems to have been a tool for god to “show” things to Moses .”17. This is the meaning of the verse, “which was shown to you.” “You” is the secret of the mirror which does not shine, MALCHUT, which reflected all those forms for Moses to see. And he saw each thing correctly, as if looking through a glass lamp, and within a mirror reflecting all the shapes. And when Moses beheld them, he found it difficult.”
    There are many more examples that talk about this “strange” form of communication. It’s almost too spectacular to think a bit further into this direction…. It’s mysterious enough, but to me this doesn’t sound like Moses smoking anything in order to communicate with god.

    1. Good points Senesino
      It also says in the Bible’s passage that, when the Spirit of God descended to the tent where the ark resided, the people outside could see a cloud over the tent.

      Not to mention all the passages of the spirit of God leading the people as a column of smoke during day, and as a pillar of fire at night…

      —–
      It’s not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me…
      It’s all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

      Red Pill Junkie

    2. ‘ Smokin’ Mirrors’
      Hello, ‘smokin’mirrors’ , tools to communicate, sounds all very alien to me, certainly not the One talking. I would think that over the years it has been established that direct ‘mental’communication is happening and by lesser beings from outside our vibration. That’s not to say Jehova didn’t use this(the ark) ‘magical’modus operandi with the proto-jews.

      R P J, please do not hate Jehova, pity him for his cruel nature, and pity those that are led to submit to his cruelty.

      As for Moses using enthogens i would think , as a member of the educated egyptian elite, he would know what and how to consume it.

      A Man Can Not Begin To Learn That Which He Thinks He Already Knows (Epictetus)

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