Apocalypse 2012

I'm well overdue to change the Daily Grail poll to a new topic - as I write, there have been 2777 votes on what 2012 will bring, with the majority of respondents saying 'nothing'. But before we move on, here's a recent CNN article on the topic which you might like to check out:

"There's going to be a whole generation of people who, when they think of the Maya, think of 2012, and to me that's just criminal," said David Stuart, director of the Mesoamerica Center at the University of Texas at Austin.

"There is no serious scholar who puts any stock in the idea that the Maya said anything meaningful about 2012."

But take the fact that December 21, 2012, coincides with the winter solstice, add claims the Maya picked the time period because it also marks an alignment of the sun with the center of the Milky Way galaxy, and you have the makings of an online sensation.

The article does a good job of talking to knowledgable, skeptical scholars such as Anthony Aveni ("I think that the popular books... about what the Maya say is going to happen are really fabricated on the basis of very little evidence"), as well as 2012 'celebrities' such as John Major Jenkins ("The trendy doomsday people... should be treated for what they are: under-informed opportunists and alarmists who will move onto other things in 2013").

But even if 2012 is just another year, you can always enjoy (?) seeing the world collapse via Roland Emmerich's next disaster flick - 2012.

Comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
obiwan's picture
Member since:
25 March 2007
Last activity:
4 years 17 weeks

no mention of crystal skulls, wandering wolf... etc..

now i remember why i left university - sickening.

udanax's picture
Member since:
5 May 2004
Last activity:
3 years 2 weeks

In 1999, I worked in IT at a major hospital. Many people with lots more letters after their names than I were scared to death that when the year 2000 arrived, all the computers in the hospital...and around the world were going to crash and mankind would be thrown into another Stone Age. They worked themselves into traumatic hissy-fits that I did not seem the least concerned. I just plugged away taking all the programming patches, continued doing the job I was hired to do (calmly), and refused to get aboard the Panic Train. 2012...same thing.

Rick MG's picture
Member since:
2 May 2004
Last activity:
2 days 10 hours

Actually, I saw first-hand a few computers cause problems at a power station because of the Y2K thing. Luckily they weren't hooked up to anything, we just set them aside to see if the computers really would be affected. They were. So if they were hooked up, there would have been problems. I spent that entire summer installing anti-Y2k software, fun times.

A few airliners in Australia reported problems with flight computers, and there was something else that I can't remember now. So there could have been major problems if left unchecked. Better safe than sorry, if you ask me. But I agree, the Y2K bug was grossly exaggerated by IT companies cashing in on a gullible public, it wasn't as bad as projected. I'm sure many viruses are created by anti-virus software companies.

But did nothing happen because we all fixed the Y2K problem before it hit? Who knows.

AlphaMale's picture
Member since:
25 January 2009
Last activity:
5 years 8 weeks

I wonder what pinchbeck will have to say for himself when
2012 comes and goes. Perhaps, " Sorry everyone, the entity I referred to as Quetzalcoatl was really a projection of my own ego attempting to inhibit me from throwing off the illusion of of conditioned existence, much like Buddha and Mara!"....NAH!!!

Cat Vincent's picture
Member since:
24 April 2008
Last activity:
2 days 2 hours

...a terrifying and unnecessary display of jingoism, tribal pettiness and pointless wasting of money.

Otherwise known as the London Olympics.

Rick MG's picture
Member since:
2 May 2004
Last activity:
2 days 10 hours

Reminds me of the late 19th century, when academics insisted the Maya lived a utopian lifestyle of peace and love... and then the bloodied, violent murals of torture and execution were discovered. Academics tried to suppress this new information, not wanting to look like fools, and it caused a storm of controversy.

Are the Maya misrepresented once again? Only this time, who stands to look like a fool? Three years to go until we find out, I guess.

Me -- I have no idea what will happen in 2012. Probably nothing, but I wouldn't be surprised if something happens. It could involve the sun and solar storms -- right now, it's puzzling scientists with its disturbing lack of sunspot activity. And the current solar cycle will peak in 2011. Will we see a repeat of the last solar cycle peak, when Montreal was without power for a week during a freezing winter, and several satellites were fried? I'm not saying the Mayans predicted this, just that they were uncannily aware of solar and astronomical cycles, they were exceptional mathematicians. New Agers take this out of context, but I think orthodox academics don't give it enough attention.

Is it just a coincidence that as we near the end of a Mayan Long Count around 2012, we also enter the age of Kali in Hindu cosmology, the Fifth Age according to the Hopi, and the good ol' Age of Aquarius to New Age hippies? Or is it evidence the ancients knew more about astronomy and solar cycles than we give them credit for? Don't ask me, I'm just waxing rhetorical!

tihz_ho's picture
Member since:
30 April 2004
Last activity:
1 week 5 days

If you check you will see that no one is really sure what year it actually is. Best guesses put the year at plus or minus 3 years from our current date.

Y2K was not affected as it was just a number. However year 2012 is a specific date so knowing that the calculations and transcoding of and between the Gregorian and Mayan calendars are accurate is important otherwise the Mayan end of the cycle (world) may already have passed, year 2012 notwithstanding. (The same held true for the end of the millennium doomsayers, and not the computer glitch.

Oops...

So what makes the Mayans, and their calendar so special anyway?

This "2012" event proves that anything can be given importance if people wish it to.

It seems we humans need these sorts of events in our lives. If we cannot find solace with religious events, as in the anticipation of second coming of Christ for example we gladly invent one, or two.

I only hope that all of you "2012ers" celebrate or fear 2012 sensibly and don't spend too much money on it.

:)

Cheers

Rick MG's picture
Member since:
2 May 2004
Last activity:
2 days 10 hours

The Maya record earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, plagues, and other disasters at the end of previous Long Counts. This is one reason why some people are expecting the same at the end of this one. As I mentioned earlier, it also coincides with the ending of ages (and beginning of the next) in other cultures -- Hindu, Hopi, astrology.

The dating is accurate, unless you want to argue with Mayan scholars who spent their careers translating glyphs?

tihz_ho's picture
Member since:
30 April 2004
Last activity:
1 week 5 days

Of course the Mayans wouldn't have just recorded only the events that coincided with the ends of previous Long Counts now, would they?

Other religions (and beliefs) past and present have no problems in putting a spin on events to support their promulgations. There are so many examples of this one could call it a human condition.

Examples:

Many Muslims and non Muslims considered the 2005 tsunami was "divine punishment" for Sri Lanka Muslims and Aceh Indonesia, a very pious Islamic region often blamed for fostering Islamic Jihadists as these areas suffered the most deaths and destruction and Allah even signed his work.

Nazism - The Nazi blamed the Jews for everything, and they had all the "proof" they needed.

White Supremacy...need I say more?

...and many more examples if one cares to look.

The point is no matter what will happen in 2012 there will be no end of people putting the Mayan spin on it - the "I told you so".

If nothing happens in 2012?

I am sure there are many well scripted excuses by enlightened cosmic people who have managed to stave off the end of the world...and "aren't we great for doing so"?

Cheers

PS: Its our dating / calendar that is not accurate. The year 2000 may have been 2003, or 1997 or even more. This would then throw off any calculations of when the Mayan end of cycle would be...2012, or 2009 or 2015?

I can hear all the 2012 pundits jumping on the miscalculations pointing at the 2008 financial woes as "proof SEE?" (!)

And on an on it goes... :)

1soloadventurer's picture
Member since:
11 December 2008
Last activity:
4 years 14 weeks

In the listing of the 30-01-2009 TDG articles there was a quote from Lord Kelvin: "THERE is nothing new to be discovered in physics." ("Was "Darwin Wrong"? The insightful (and potentially inciting) answer") Lord Kelvin was not only an egotistical fool, but forgot that the very ESSENCE of science is ALL about change, and evolvement. Even if he couldn't see past his own ego, he should have known that there is never a final answer in science.

As to the previous Y2K crisis: Jan 2, 2000 ... CNN's Jonathan Karl reports on money spent on Y2K readiness and whether it was it worth it. ... out an estimated $100 billion dollars to prepare for the bug... So after an estimated 100 billion dollars is spent to fix the Y2K problem, individuals say "Look, there were no problems! It was all a hoax! How DIM are these fools? So after you fix the problem, and disaster is averted, some fool is then going to state that there never was a problem because it didn't happen?!!!

Famous Einstein quote: There are two ways to live: you can live as if nothing is a miracle; you can live as if everything is a miracle.

If you tried to measure the heat given off by a chemical reaction with a micrometer, we know that the "measurement" would be wrong. Why do we know that? Because chemistry has progressed to the point that we know that a micrometer is the wrong tool to measure temperature with. But if the chemistry state of the art hadn't progressed sufficiently at the time that the micrometer was being used (to measure the heat of an exothermic reaction) then the "measurement" results would be inconclusive or misinterpreted.

The reason so many "fringe" science topics have not been adequately described by science, and yet have effects that have been repeatedly observed, is that the measuring tools have not been developed and the theory to model the behavior has not been developed. The truth of existence varies so greatly from our models of reality that we haven't even developed the tools to measure reality properly yet.

The 2012 phenomenon falls into the category of reality that currently lies outside our current models of reality. Just like how the pyramids were built, and all those other ancient mysteries. The "Scientists" who shout loudly that ESP, Extraterrestials, Cold Fusion, and other fringe science is impossible are just protecting their egos, paychecks, etc. They are pulling a "Lord Kelvin" and are displaying their ignorance to all those with "eyes to see".

Delaiah's picture
Member since:
1 May 2004
Last activity:
16 hours 1 min

I think that people actually subconsciously "know" a great deal more than they realize. There are some basic truths, things that are "right" and "wrong", as well as consequences for our actions.

This phenomenon is a kind of acknowledgement that the scales are way, way out of balance and Payback is coming. Yes, the Mayan theory is a little corny and off base, but it has to be to cut through the vast denial and try to satisfy that feeling tugging at the back of many minds.

The real worry for me is that a mass psychological "blank check" is being written for 2012 and all Hell will break loose just because it is "supposed" to happen.

petelyon73's picture
Member since:
17 November 2007
Last activity:
4 weeks 5 days

well...it will be the summer solstice where i am....galactic alignment aswell...regardless....and isnt it just the end of the fourth age....well more to the point, the beginning of the fifth?
from what i understand we are already between ages and on the verge of the next as far as Mayan thought goes regarding time .

I am also of the understanding that the fifth age is blank...we get to write it....i just hope the alignment with the galactic centre injects earth with the energies required for us to write wisely :)

............................................................

When god decides if it is an us or an I or a we....or a he or a she or an us....you can then come talk to me about it!

obiwan's picture
Member since:
25 March 2007
Last activity:
4 years 17 weeks

this is something real
just take a minute to think about it

"Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj is head of the National Mayan Council of Elders of Guatemala, Day Keeper of the Mayan Calendar, a 13th generation Quiche Mayan High Priest and a Grand Elder of the Continental Council of Elders and Spiritual Guides of the Americas. He is also an international lecturer on Mayan Culture.

Don Alejandro is charged as the primary keeper of the teachings, visions and prophecies of the Mayan people, which are very much alive today. He travels the world sharing the message and prophecies of the Mayans. One prophecy says: “Arise, all arise, not one nor two groups be left behind.” Another says: “Let the morning come, let the dawn come for the people to have peace and be happy. Together we are to see our children. Together we are to see our mountains. Together we are to see our cities. Together we are to see our waters.” His message of hope and empowerment resonates with people of all faiths and beliefs around the globe. "

http://www.commonpassion.org/index.php?o...

Mayan Elder Speaks
DON ALEJANDRO ... MAYAN ELDER
September 1999 ... Santa Fe, New Mexico
We are all here because it is our destiny, our mission. Spirit has called each of you here. You are special. I am no more special than you are. You are more than me. I am a poor Mayan. We do not have schools and universities like you do. We live in the poor countryside. What I have is given to me by my father. The Cosmos is the source of our knowledge. We study the Cosmos. Our books are the Mayan Codices. For us, this is our writing. The hand is a book. We have 5000 codices. We study these. We communicate with the invisible ones, the star people, who gave me my name,"Wandering Wolf." I come in fulfillment of the prophesies of the Mayan and Hopi, which says: "Those of the center will unite the eagle of the north and the condor of the south, because we are one, like the fingers of the hand." This means that the elders of Central America will unite with those of North and South America. This is a fulfillment of our prophesies, that is why I am here. our elder astronomers are watching over time and when it will be fulfilled. It shall be fulfilled in Twelve Baktun and it began on August 17, 1987, the Harmonic Convergence. It was then that I began my walk all over the world. The Harmonic Convergence began the Twelve Baktun, Thirteen Bahaou and will end in 2012 or 2013 by your calendar. This will end the fourth period of the sun by our calendar. There will be huge problems. Catastrophes and cataclysms will befall us. So I have been asked to speak to you and all over the world, of these prophesies and other elders, too. We speak in defense of the natural world. No more pollution of the planet. It cannot survive it, and then we will not be able to survive without our mother earth. There is no more distinction between races and colors and creeds. Your sadness and loneliness is the same as mine. We have the same feelings of love. Why? We have the same sun, one breath, all the earth is fed by the one sun, air, water-mother earth, and we return here. We are the flower of the earth of different colors, sizes, scents. You and your music -we all go in the same direction: toward the Creator. The Mayans with their hands tied, hearts torn out are in the codices and were fulfilled five hundred years ago and to the present day. These prophesies are being fulfilled. In Guatemala, we cannot ask for food or land, or they will shoot us. They come at night and take our leaders and shoot them and torture them, rape them, and take their hearts out. Pregnant women have their babies torn from their stomachs. These injustices began five hundred years ago and continue to this very day in all the Americas. They want to destroy each other and turn mother earth into money. Soon the illness, heat, suicide and drought arrives. LETS SEE IF WE CAN FIX IT with money when there is no water, polluted land, air, seas...we cannot. We must do it now, before it is too late, we must stop cutting down the trees. We seek the unity of all people to seek no more pollution. Lets think about the future for our children. What will we leave them? A tank? A gun? We must leave them love, equality, freedom. Earth belongs to the Creator. It is for humans, for man. Man divided and put boundaries around it and owned the land. No one can claim the sun or air - it is for all of us.

Mayan astrologers know a lot but do not say everything. In these past days there are many doomsday sayers. On August 11, 1987, the positions of planets in alignment brought more energy on the earth. There will be more earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. During 2012-2013 there will be a great comet and a red comet. We are all creatures of the earth, but in space there are others. Comets might fall elsewhere. These are not predictions of death.But a great illness will come from pollution. That is why we are gathering, to stop the pollution that will cause this great illness. It is the fulfillment of a prophesy. During 1994, in Guatemala at a meeting of the elders, we lit a sacred fire day and night, and for seventy two hours there were more than three hundred elders participating. Not just to talk about the prophesies, but to awaken the power centers of the earth. That is why we are here now in North America, in Santa Fe. Each elder did their ceremonies for ten days. This was called the Continental Gathering Reunion. In 1997 we met again in Bogota, Colombia and ended in the Amazon. Over four hundred elders came. From there the indigenous people of North America were selected next in Santa Fe. Hopefully, you will help us. It is a prayer for Creating Peace. At each gathering there are certain papers presented and ceremonies done. Each tribe will share their knowledge and their prophesies, their ceremonies at the ceremonial sites. We struggle to defend our Mother Earth. All the goals discussed at the gathering must be written in a book. We are writing a history and publishing it. So the authorities can read it. There will be a thirty six hour prayer for peace. Everyone prayed and made offerings and created a memorial.

The crystal skulls that are from the Mayan pyramids have been given to a woman to hold and protect. Later they will be returned to the pyramids. Anna Mitchell Hodges is holding them. These crystal skulls were brought from the Pleiades, they speak of reincarnation. The elders know the science of the lives in this. The Mother of Mayan science is Pleiadian. These skulls must go home where they belong. This is the science of the future after 2000. You were called to be here and carry this message. SPREAD THE WORD!! The Wingmakers are actually the star people. Mayan actually means "my people." They first came to Atlantis. Our first pyramids are there, underwater. In the Bermuda area. Tulan was the name of the city of Atlantis. Their great prophets, (star people), came and gave an oral transmission. It has been passed down for thousands of years. In the beginning there were four of them. The first teachers from the Pleiades taught the astronomy and the beginning of creation, the Great Mysteries. They have the power of the sixth and seventh senses and the third eye. They came to teach us these things. The way of working together, etc. There have been many visitations from the Pleiades, then they return there, then they come back here again and come down to Asia, Tibet, Kaimaya, and in India also. "Nagamaya" they were called. There are glyphs that speak of these visitations, like the Wingmakers. More will be discovered when it is time.

In 2012, these wise ones will return again. There are some now incarnated in bodies, we do not know who they are and it is a secret until the time comes.

This is the return of the ancestors spoken about in the prophesies. They will all arise, not just Mayan, all of us. The prophecy says: "May it dawn, may the new day come, may people have peace and be happy." To guide you with these messages, it is the message of the dawn...the bringers of the dawn. You will see then where we have come from. The Psychic says we, together will see our mountains, our children, our waters..."Now that I return I see my children confused in different religions and cities destroyed and my mountains and deserts and rivers polluted." When they return in 2012, what will we show them? What will they see? Take this message and share it. This is why we are gathering, to tell people the importance of saving the mother earth, of stopping the pollution.
Thank you.
Don Alejandro
Wandering Wolf

----

You and I may meet again in another dimension after the year Zero. The year Zero is the word of the Maya. On March 31, 2013 the sun will be hidden for a period of 60-70 hours and this is when we shall enter the period of the Fifth Sun. Then will you realize that what the Mayans speak are facts and not false preachings. We are not saying that the world will end in 2000. There are false ones who say these things to frighten and threaten the world without awakening. But the Mayan priests and astronomers know what is happening and see what shall happen in the future. This is my only message. I do not come to intimidate you. I come to say that we should love one another. Let us walk together. We are all children and we pray that our Father be with us. Thank you."

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/6...

--------
extracted from THE CHRONICLE OF CHAC XULUB CHEN BY NAKUK PECH (1562).

The chronicle is also part of the Mayan archives of the Pakalian Group and it is released at the beginning of the year 2007 confirming also the prophecies included in the Books of the Chilam Balam priests.

(In Mayan language)

U THAN AHAU PECH AHKIN
Tu kinil uil u natabal kine,
Yume ti yokcab te ahtepal.
Uale can (?)it u katunil,
Uchi uale hahal pul.
Tu kin kue yoklal u kaba,
In kubene yume.
Ti a-uich-ex tu bel a uliah, Ahitza,
U yum cab ca ulom.
Than tu chun ahau Pech ahkin,
Tu kinil uil can ahau katun,
Uale tan hi (?)il u katunil.

(Translation)

THE WORD OF THE LORD PECH, THE PRIEST
At that time it will be well to know the tidings,
Of the Lord, the ruler of the world.
After four katuns,
Then will occur the bringing of the truth.
At that time one who is a god by his name,
I deliver to you as a lord.
Be your eyes on the road for your guest, Men of Itza,
When the lord of the earth shall come. The word of the first lord, Pech, the priest,
A t the time of the fourth katun,
At the end of the katun.

tihz_ho's picture
Member since:
30 April 2004
Last activity:
1 week 5 days

If nothing happens in 2012/3 will all the doomsayers say "Oops, never mind?"

:)

Cheers

dustincole's picture
Member since:
7 August 2004
Last activity:
3 years 4 weeks

I'm with Flemish Primitive on this one. The Mayan calendar is just that...a calendar. Does the world end every time OUR calender ends? No. It just starts another cycle over again. December 31 does NOT mark the end of the world...just the end of a one year cycle.

Now, that being said, I'm pretty sure that 2012, is an important time frame.

There is a lot of evidence pointing to that year as being some kind of 'jump point'. I'm not saying that on that date, there will be an explosion of new awareness, or that we will experience anything profound at all. I'm just saying that as far as "time frames" go, the Dec. 12, 2012 date resonates strongly with many modern thinkers.

Terrence McKenna, David Wilcox, Graham Hancock, Robert Temple, etc, have all written about the importance of the 2012 time frame, but we should be careful to only see it as that. A time frame. Like saying that the year 1850 was the beginning of the second industrial revolution. It was an important date, but that specific year was only a time frame that ushered in a new way of life for us humans.

The 2012 end of the world meme is just another 12/31/1999 or 5/5/2000 craze. Don't buy into it, because conspiracy is a slippery slope. Once you allow yourself to "believe" something, you've lost an important part of yourself to it...namely your awareness.

...Even Ray Kurzweil points to that time frame as an important marker in the evolution of humanity....his time frame is a little later on, 2020-2040ish, but still in the neighborhood. In the grand timescales of tens of thousands of years, the Mayans saw this small window of time as an important shifting...the beginning of a new cycle, and we can all see this happening around us. Technology, philosophy, physics, spirituality, it's all changing rapidly and the 2012 date should be seen as an evolutionary(be it biological, societal, historical, whatever) "era marker" and nothing else.

History will look back on this time frame and will write about all of the terrible catastrophes along with all of the wonderful new things that emerged from human consciousness just like it did when it wrote the chapters on Mesopotamia, ancient Greece, ancient Rome, the Classical and Post Classical eras, the Renaissance, the Age of Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution, and the Atomic Age(along with all of the other time frames in between that ones cares to learn about).

Dustin

Redoubt's picture
Member since:
14 July 2008
Last activity:
2 years 15 weeks

I actually kind of enjoy the 2012, end of the world thing. Not that I believe every word of it but because there just seems to be so many who do believe that ‘something’ this way comes.

But you know, in the long run, it is entirely pointless because if the world is going to end… or something close to that, what IS the point? Dig a hole in the ground to survive and live like a rat in the aftermath?

We’re doing this to ourselves. We are displaying a herd mentality, headlong into a flight to nowhere.

In a way, it is amusing because there has never been anything like this before, even during the darkest days of the Cold War. Not just one nation but an entire world teetering on the edge of a self-induced, internally motivated hysteria. It represents the perfect kind of storm circulating around a vast snowball effect… growing larger and more turbulent as it goes merrily along.

I wonder if this is anything like what Lemurs experience before they go running off the edge of their little world?

"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it."