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Tuesday Roundup 05-06-2007

A strange assortment to get you through the week…

Enjoy!

Editor
  1. Oh Jeez
    I would have thought that Nick Redfern could have taken a more decisive stand in his review of the book Encounters at Indian Head.
    He is in danger of fence burn from sitting on it for so long.

    I know, I know, everyone believes in Betty and Barney Hill’s alien abduction.

    Everyone except Barney that is, who confessed on his death bed that it was a hoax cooked up by he and his wife because they had received death threats due to their interracial marriage, which was very unusual in those days.

    They hoped the resulting publicity would draw attention to them and ward off the anger at their marriage.
    And it did.

    I wish I had not lost the cutting from the UK newspaper stating his confession.

    Redfern is right when he says it was a defining moment in our culture.
    But it had to happen.
    The UFO world was buzzing in the fifties and sixties with better cameras which had come into use after the war taking better pics of things in the sky.

    And don’t forget we went to the moon.

    But IMHO the Hills and Streiber and Hopkins all set the cause of the UFO movement back by at least half a century by their twaddle.

    One of the things that makes me laugh is one of the supposed experts on UFOs saying the abductions had to be true as they all happened the same way.

    Of course they did!

    People just copied the others who came first with their stories.
    Except for the imaginative ones who added a little zest.

    We were incredibly naive in the fifties and sixties,but we are not so incredibly naive now.
    In another 20 years we will be far more aware of maybe just what does constitute an alien.
    And it will not be a grey creature with long eyes who sneaks into our bedrooms at night to take us to his UFO.

    I think we owe all the aliens of the universe an apology for believing this rubbish for so long.

    In the meantime, I can’t get enough of those UFO pics.

    shadows

    1. Hill Confession
      [quote=the shadow]I know, I know, everyone believes in Betty and Barney Hill’s alien abduction.

      Everyone except Barney that is, who confessed on his death bed that it was a hoax cooked up by he and his wife because they had received death threats due to their interracial marriage, which was very unusual in those days.[/quote]

      Hi Shadows,

      Which paper was this in? I’ve read a lot of the literature on the Hill ‘abduction’, including the skeptical takes, and I’ve never heard this. I would have thought that the CSICOPians would be announcing this over a loudspeaker if it was genuine.

      I don’t think ‘everyone’ believes that the Hills were abducted by aliens. Martin Kottmeyer has raised some good points about sci-fi parallels as possible influences (although Karl Pflock also pointed out that some of the Hills’ account – such as the particular Outer Limits episode Kottmeyer references – postdated the initial evidence given by the couple). Others have thrown doubt over the ‘star map’ that Betty drew. There’s plenty of skepticism, but at the same time there are some serious issues worth taking into account (missing time etc).

      On the ‘alien abduction’ phenomenon in general, there is no doubt that something is happening. The question isn’t over whether they happen – it is. The question is: is it a real event, or something in the heads of those experiencing. Skeptics prefer the latter (obviously), but to do so we must deal with certain aspects which argue otherwise (multiple experiencer accounts, archetypal elements).

      Yes, there are a heck of a lot of deluded or hoaxing people in the field. But there are also a lot of PhDs, upstanding citizens, and plain old homebodies who are undergoing exceptional experiences (for some, absolutely terrifying). Our good friend Will Bueche is one. To simply brush their accounts off as ‘rubbish’ is a little callous IMO.

      Kind regards,
      Greg
      ——————————————-
      You monkeys only think you’re running things

      1. Barney Hill deathbed confession
        It took a bit of scouring but I’ve come up with some supporting evidence re Barney Hill’s deathbed confession.

        It was from a post by Shadows (04 March 2005): “And then Barney Hill, on his deathbed, confessed that they had made the whole thing up.I have the cutting from an English paper here somewhere, though in 18 big boxes will take some finding.”

        scroll to post “logging out”

      2. Me? Callous?
        Not me.

        Some years ago,maybe about 12 or 14 years, I can’t remember now, I used to belong to a UFO society in the UK.
        I can’t even remember the name of it but if I still have the stuff in one of many boxes I will find it eventually and tell you.

        Someone from this society sent me the article,knowing I was interested in the Hills. I don’t know which paper, can’t remember that either, but I kept the article.
        I lost a lot of papers when I moved here 8 years ago.

        Whether from the article or not I garnered the information that Barney Hill had confessed when he knew he was dying…not quite on his death-bed but almost.
        He and Betty were very aware that there was a lot of opposition to their marriage, him being African American and Betty being European.
        They planned this abduction story together, hoping that when it became public, the bigots out there who were opposed to their marriage would cool down.
        As Barney put it,they felt they were in danger of disappearing as had happened a couple of times in the south in America when interracial marriage took place.

        They planned it very well because so many people believed them.
        Barney said he could not die happy because of the hoax he and his wife had carried out.

        I knew it was a hoax when I first read the story.Don’t ask me why, I just knew.
        And every case since then has carried the imprimatur of this one.

        I might add that in the 50s and 60s my late husband was a leading light in the UFO world in Oz.He was a personal friend of Allen Hynek.
        At the time I met Hynek he discussed the Hill case and the fact that they had problems with being an interracial couple.
        It was well known.
        I had access then to literature that has long since disappeared from shelves.
        Unfortunately I wasn’t able to save all my husband’s stuff owing to the stress of his death on me and the kids.

        PhDs, outstanding citizens and homebodies can be wrong if they have been influenced heavily by stuff they have read that presumably came from respectable people.
        And if they are of a certain mindset to believe it.

        If you think that Streiber, with his background of writing horror books is trustworthy in what he has written,then I suggest you need to learn a new definition of trustworthy.

        You dare to call me callous because I have given a considered opinion on a situation in the world out of which you and many others make your money.
        And there is money in UFO abduction stories!

        I am not interested in money.
        I am just an interested bystander.
        And as an interested bystander, and a highly intelligent person, I can see just who has been having their legs pulled for so long.
        I have been around the UFO world for probably a lot longer than you Greg and I saw and heard a lot in those years when the Hill business took place.

        The other alternative is that you and others know full well that the whole alien abduction scenario is a lot of bullpoop, and yet you continually propagate this balderdash for your own benefits.

        Now please withdraw your comment to me that I am callous.Because I thought all this time that you had the guts to be honest about what was right and what was wrong in the alternative scene.

        I do believe that people see things, that they dream about strange things that happen to them, and that the dreams seem very real.
        But dreams in sleep paralysis are very real.
        They have been indoctrinated by reams of literature to believe that they are being abducted by aliens so they do.
        I believe that they see whatever it was that our ancestors saw.
        See Jacques Vallee for that.

        shadows

        Crikey, I don’t even know why I bothered explaining this crap.
        I should have just thrown a boot in your direcion.

        And might I add that if I had called someone callous because they did not believe something you would have jumped on me from a great height.

        Yeah, I know,as Jake says, the man who owns the site gets to set his own rules.

        1. You know what, Greg?
          The UFO world reminds me of the American media since Bush took power.
          Any journalist with half a brain cell knows exactly what Bush is doing, but no one has the courage to actually say that the emperor is naked.

          You blame the government for discrediting the truth of UFOs.
          You say that the truth won’t get out there until the government allows it to.

          The truth is this……….

          All of you people who perpetuate the stupid myth that grey aliens are coming into bedrooms at night and abducting people for genetic experiments are the reason why the truth is not out there.
          No on in their right minds believes it.
          They want to believe but they can’t.
          They can’t because people like you cannot admit you are wrong and move on.

          Yes MOVE ON.

          sadly, a callous shadows

        2. Yabadabadoo
          After Betty Hill died in October 2004, a post was blogged on Invisionfree by “Stormwatch” which reads:

          “No last words from her … ? Like, ‘I made it all up?’
          Although theirs was a really interesting case and has become a classic of its kind, there was always something about it that didn’t sit right for me.”

          Surrounding posts on the above link include some from people claiming to have conversed directly with Betty Hill in her last years.

          Morning (Evening) Shadows. You wrote (to Greg) that “The other alternative is that you and others know full well that the whole alien abduction scenario is a lot of bullpoop, and yet you continually propagate this balderdash for your own benefits.”

          For the life of me, I can’t figure out what those benefits might be. Maybe I’m just callous.

          1. love and apologies
            my arse!

            Is there no honest man on TDG with whom I can converse who does not wish to bring me down?

            Ok cnnek and Anthony maybe.

          2. Thank-You!
            Shadows

            I love you, too! But, let’s not forget Floppy!

            What do you think?

            cnnek

            {You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can’t Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

          3. the funny thing about this greg 2
            is that you dont even believe it yourself.You are just getting into this argument to help greg 1

            Do you have any ethics at all?

            Oh that’s right, we saw that.

          4. Sigh, not at all.
            I am intrigued about the Barney Hill deathbed claim. I don’t have a position on it yet because I’m still looking for information about it.

            As to what i believe … I have little doubt (and less proof) that aliens exist. It’s a big universe, it is easy to believe they are out there.

            Do they abduct people from flying saucers? I believe there are many people who believe that such experiences have happened to them. Do I personally believe these people were actually abducted? I honestly believe that they believe they were.

          5. I know what’s going on here
            You Greg 2 are Greg 1s father.

            Why else do you feel the need to rush in and save him all the time.
            He’s a big boy, he can look after himself.
            But I have noticed that you are always there like a trusty batman.

            Betty Hill was a little pixilated when she died.I saw an interview with her about 1 year before her death.
            SHE believed she had been abducted by aliens.
            Wouldn’t you if you had lived a lie all these years?

          6. gibbon christ lemur nerfball (chimp chimp cherie)
            Shadows:

            Great … you’ve earned yourself a ban from posting on TDG now. However I’m guessing you’ll continue reading posts here for a week or two. So, for what it’s worth …

            (1) re : your belief that anubis2 & GLTaylor1 share some sort of Siamese-dualism.

            TDGreg and I rarely see things eye to eye. I’m much more into hard skepticism and enjoy digging up James Randi. TDGreg is more inclined toward believing and has much better taste in women than I have (had up to this point in the space-time continuum). TDGreg is much more e-gregarious than myself … for instance, if it was my site, jaako would have been banned after his first post. All Texaco-referential isms to ‘cruxes of being’ would have been far less than subtly removed within 8 nanoseconds of their posting. Greg (of TDG) is a tolerant, productive and understanding young man. I’m slothful, belligerent and (until recently) a chain smoker. I like the smell of fish finger. Greg the other is more of a prude. We are very, very different. For Chrissake s, he wears rectangular glasses and is dependent on Ventolin !

            (2) “Is there no honest man … who does not wish to bring me down?”

            If there was … you would doubtlessly find a way or two to make it look like some can’t was bringing you down. If you review your posts on ” Tuesday Roundup 05-06-2007” you’ll see the very moment where you crack’td. GLT wrote “To simply brush their accounts off as ‘rubbish’ is a little callous.” Hardly a quote to set off the end of the world as we know it. You replied “You dare to call me callous” and everything goes downhill from there.

            (3) Seriously … Shadows … it really is all in your head. People were swapping anecdotes and having fun. All of a sudden in the Daily Grail Tuesday Roundup 05-06-2007 you seem to have gone “bezerk”.

          7. A comment
            Hi A2,

            I don’t think there is any point in continuing on discussion on this topic, and it is unfair on Shadows to comment when she cannot reply. How about we leave it there, and move on.

            Kind regards,
            Greg
            ——————————————-
            You monkeys only think you’re running things

          8. Return of the God
            Anubis2
            Destroyer of Worlds
            Castrator of Golden Monkey
            Hatchet-man
            Cynic and blind believer to extent he will disappear up own fundament.
            Never recovered from turning back on Jesus dying on cross.

            Solution…return to Catholic faith where he can self-flagellate to heart’s content.

        3. Mmmhhh
          A little perspective please. I said one particular statement in your comment was “a little callous” (with the caveat IMO). If you want to translate that into the “site owner” setting his own rules, all men wanting to “bring you down”, and that I’m propagating “this balderdash for your own benefits”, then go for it. I’m not biting though, sorry.

          Kind regards,
          Greg
          ——————————————-
          You monkeys only think you’re running things

          1. The bringing me down
            was not written to you.

            But please feel free to go f**k yourself.

            I won’t be back.

            [*post edited]

          2. thanks
            I now have to explain to my 12 yo daughter why I said that the comments section on TDG was a good place to get great insight!
            I think she could get this type of insight from the school yard.

            “Life can be whatever you want it to be, as long as you do what your told.”
            LRF.

          3. I gotta theory …
            Well, I’ve been reading all this and I’ve got a theory. My recent comments on moderation have inspired some people to do an exercise in the collapse of moderation, thus proving me right.
            Come on guys! Tell me I’m not wrong.

            I’m fanatical about moderation

            Anthony North

          4. Moderation, emotions, the astralised mind
            Moderation is perhaps simply the capacity to check our predisposition to being possessed by our emotions.

            Moderation would normally be a necessary quality of a diplomat for instance.

            It always comes down to the same principle of the astral nature of consciousness. That condition that wants the emotion to keep control over the mind so that we are always blinded by our reason and can never see that of the other.

            This emotional takeover of the mind, even though it gives us the impression of being the stuff of our consciousness because it vibrates with such intensity, instantly disconnects us from our real selves and keep us in a state of conflict.

            It is easy to see this in the other but when we are the one concerned, it is nearly impossible, it is too late to see, when our mind is filled with emotions that then are instantly connected to a thought form.

            So long as we believe that thoughts are ours, we can never see through ourselves, even less in others.

            So, if a thought plants the seed of suspicion or of susceptibility, which is technically granting the other intents he does not really have, we will believe to be in our right because we will identify to that thought, thought which was beamed down the mind to test our ability to discern and to not be manipulated by our illusions.

            In other words to test how far we are in our avility to tear down these illusions as they seek to blind us to keep the channel opened between emotions and mind.

            In other words, in our ability to see rather than reason.

          5. Obviously this child could not read
            when you wrote on this forum 5 years ago that her mother was *EDITED.

          6. Account blocked
            Shadows told me she was leaving for good, and today she has turned up in attack mode. As such, I have no option but to block her account.

            Kind regards,
            Greg
            ——————————————-
            You monkeys only think you’re running things

          7. I will miss her
            This is very regretable and I for one, must say it is sad to see this occur. Love, Pam

            P.S. Take care shadows, if you need/want to write, you know how to contact me. —————————–Truth is stranger than fiction.

  2. That terrarium is so cool!
    For years I have been making terrariums from old fish tanks and they never work very well.
    One day I will get one of my boys to build me one like this one.
    The trouble is that I don’t have much room for it in my house.
    I guess I’ll have to move.

    shadows

  3. about Greg Bishop’s “underground bases”
    As I was reading the replies Greg Bishop got about his post on the mythos surrounding alleged underground bases on US soil, someone directed him to an aerial photo of Trementina base, which apparently was part of a facility held by the so-called “Church of Sipritual Technology”. I became intrigued and searched for more info on them on wikipedia. It seems these guys have the rights of several books by the founder of Scientology.

    But not only that, the church was founded in California, you might not think much about that, but it reminded me of some other interesting UFO myth, that I believe is not that well known among the english-speaking UFO enthusiasts, but it is very important in South America. I’m talking about the mistery surrounding “Friendship Island”, which is supposed to be a very isolated island in the Chonos Archipelago in Chile, very close to the Antartic Pole, and in this island a very strange community of scientists (who claimed to be in contact with what they called “the angels of the Lord”) was supposed to dwell and perform some weird experiments. One person who claimed to have gone to the island to be cured from lung cancer was a guy named Ernesto de la Fuente Gandarillas, who first came in contact with the members of the community (who gave themselves names like Ariel, Miguel, Rafael and such) through CV radio, aswell as other people that talked with “Los Friendship” using the same medium. The Friendship phenomenon went to the spotlight in the 80’s when a strange object was seen by many people (it was even captured by TV cameras) flying over Chile’s capital Santiago, and the people in contact with the Friendship community alleged that the object was under the control of their “friends” (there’s even a low quality recording of these people talking with their misterious friends, in which you can hear that “Ariel” is giving the direction the object is going to take beforehand, it’s not difficult to find on the internet).

    What does any of this have to do with the “Church of Spirtual Technology”? probably nothing, but I recall that in one of the conversations Ernesto de la Fuente had with Ariel, He informed the former that their movement or community was originally formed in the United States, in California to be exactly. So it seems as a strange coincidence to me, at least.

    All this Friendhip business, for everyone who is interested, is very complex and by now filled with a lot of farfetched information. Some people have tried to link “Los Friendships” to everything from a neonazi community called “Colonia Dignidad”, to the business mogul turned into hardcore enviromentalist called Douglas Tompkins who has acquired a lot of real state in the Chonos Archipelago to make a protected reservation, but has raised the suspicions of some chileans and argentinians politicians who fear their countries are loosing precious national territories, a very common “gringo” paranoia here in latin america.

    Well, just wanted to share this with you, since i was unable to post all these shenanigans on Greg’s blog. I hope nevertheless he could see into some of this info though.

    See ya!

  4. I’m Having A Small Problem!
    Greg

    Sometimes when I try to edit my posts, I get either logged out, or denied access to the post, or both! Is there a reason for this?

    I’m sorry about posting this here; but, there is no contact link for you. I’m a bit confused about that, too!

    What do you think?

    cnnek

    {You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can’t Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

    1. Workaround
      [quote=cnnek]Sometimes when I try to edit my posts, I get either logged out, or denied access to the post, or both! Is there a reason for this?[/quote]

      See here:

      http://www.dailygrail.com/node/4826#comment-23686

      (ie. when you see the access denied/logged out, hold down the SHIFT key and press the reload/refresh button)

      Kind regards,
      Greg
      ——————————————-
      You monkeys only think you’re running things

      1. Thank-You Very Much!
        Greg

        Now, I understand. I really appreciate your assistance!

        What do you think?

        cnnek

        {You Can Teach People How To Think Or What To Think; But, You Can’t Do Both! It Is Better To Teach People How To Think!!!}

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