Footprints of Alien Technology

It's no secret that I enjoy reading the scientific musings of Professor Paul Davies, so I'm definitely looking forward to getting my hands on this new paper, titled "Footprints of Alien Technology". In it, Davies suggests that we should not be blind to the possibility that there may be traces of alien technology to be found on Earth or elsewhere in our own Solar System:

If alien civilizations do, or did, exist, their technology will impact their environment. Some consideration has been given to the detection of large-scale astro-engineering,Monolith on the Moon such as Dyson spheres. However, a very advanced technology might leave more subtle footprints requiring sophisticated scientific methods to uncover. We must not overlook the possibility that alien technology has impacted our immediate astronomical environment, even Earth itself, but probably a very long time ago. This raises the question of what traces, if anything, might remain today. I shall consider the possibilities of biological, geological and physical traces, and suggest ways that we might search for them.

Unfortunately, to read the full article you'll have to purchase it, for the low, low price of just $31.50 (making this article today rather timely). If anybody has seen a copy floating through the internet tubes, be sure to let me know... [update: I have a copy now - Grailsourced!]

In the meantime, check out this review of the article at Space Archaeology, which adds some context via links that are worth following.

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red pill junkie's picture
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I often ask myself: would we be able to recognize the remains of a truly advanced alien civilization?

Remember that story about the diamond planet that was recently found? what if this was an actual space station engineered by a Class 2 civilization?

It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

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daydreamer's picture
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I see a fun reversal here. Recognising something as X would require some sort of testable hypothesis of X and evidence specific to hypothesis X. With the diamond planet taking the idea that it is extremely cool and rare and expanding it into some sort of hypothesis of alien invention seems to be the first insurmountable test. Usually people go for information don't they? Rather than physical structure (unless we saw something obviously designed, i.e. something we would have designed).

Hume's repudiation of purposeful design in nature seems to apply here as much as it does in intelligent design and creationism. Without knowing something is designed you cannot just assume it is because it looks to you like it is and then claim that as evidence that it actually is. So doing that in a meaningful way with the diamond planet is out - beyond speculation.

Doesn't mean its not fun to speculate though.

red pill junkie's picture
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I agree that without proof you can't go beyond wondering about it... unless you have a lot of unruly hair, that is :P

It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

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daydreamer's picture
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Man, that made me laugh out loud. Who is that guy?

If alien tech is outside of our ability to discern it as alien tech then obviously by definition we are going to miss it.

However, if it falls within our bounds of understanding then we get a chance. I'm reminded of my many chats with Kamarling by this. The notion of types of understanding being outside of science, but inside of human experience is possible here, but by this argument we take aliens outside of the realm of a scientific proof, which doesn't appear to be what this particular argument is looking for.

Missing geological resources and/or shifts in strata, non-random information stored in DNA, or rock structures, machines buried in the ground all fall within standard science. I'd love it if this subject could be dragged beyond speculation.

red pill junkie's picture
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Dude, you never seen the show Ancient Aliens?

See video

That is Giorgio A. Tsoukalos making his best impression of Londo Mollari

See video

Getting serious here: all this reminds me of Clarke's 2001, and the reason for this is not that evidence of alien civilizations is missing, but that we humans might just need to evolve further and improve our perception about the Cosmos in order to recognize those pesky anomalies for what they really are, instead of going ape about them ;)

See video

It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

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daydreamer's picture
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Quote:

Ancient Aliens

Yeah, I remember it now :) Funny program.

Quote:

we humans might just need to evolve further and improve our perception about the Cosmos in order to recognize those pesky anomalies for what they really are

In the standard way, bigger and more telescopes, better algorithms and more investment to identify anomalies, and then attempts across multiple disciples to narrow down at least the existence as an unexplained event and then preferably hypothesis that are testable in the context of the anomaly, I understand you perfectly.

In the sense of evolution and perception there is a nebulousness in the comment that renders me unsure of where to go, what to do, or how to do it.

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Tsoukalos makes me cringe. He epitomizes the sort of researcher who is none too bright and every other statement is a leap of faith. Nothing wrong with fantastic speculation, but that is about all he has. He also frequently states that "no known tooling could have made that" when in fact clever jigs can make things very accurately out of very hard materials. I am just as impressed as everybody else by the astounding and almost inexplicable stone monument building of our distant ancestors, and I am open to the possibility of ET intervention and technical assistance for sure, but we need someone who vets his ideas a bit more thoroughly.

red pill junkie's picture
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David Hatcher Childress provokes the same response in me. In the last Paracast show, I was thrilled listening to Don Ecker talk about transient Lunar phenomena, and the evidence he has tried to gather that seems to indicate a non-human presence in the Moon —and then Childress goes on to say he believes the Moon is artificial :(

I have nothing against speculation, but one needs to remember not to mix unsubstantiated claims with known facts.

It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

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epgrondine's picture
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red pill junkie wrote:

David Hatcher Childress provokes the same response in me. In the last Paracast show, I was thrilled listening to Don Ecker talk about transient Lunar phenomena, and the evidence he has tried to gather that seems to indicate a non-human presence in the Moon —and then Childress goes on to say he believes the Moon is artificial :(

I have nothing against speculation, but one needs to remember not to mix unsubstantiated claims with known facts.

Okay.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE HYPOTHESIZED that David has found some great ways of using other peoples work both without acknowledgment and without the necessity of paying for it or defending it.

OTHER PEOPLE BELIEVE that this pisses you off because you know the folks whose work he lifts from. "The DaVinci Code" copyright case comes to mind here.

I THINK its just because you're jealous that he located the immense load of Theosophist horse shit that Richard Kieninger had assembled, along with Richard's mailing list, and managed to exploit both. Don't be jealous that he's now managed to rewrap that load in "Ancient Astronaut" hypothesis paper and tie on ribbons and paste on bows and sell it again.

In fact, David had been working on this from 2005, and has now cut over to desktop video DVDs - $20 a piece. You can buy his advertising for those products for $9 or so at many US bookstores. His big goal is to swing a deal with one of the cable satellite networks for a series.

Two things are certain about David: he has never let's facts intrude on a great story; second, he never bears any responsibility for the any of it, including the results.

I suppose this just goes to show that one person's horse shit is another person's manure.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

red pill junkie's picture
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I THINK its just because you're jealous that he located the immense load of Theosophist horse shit that Richard Kieninger had assembled, along with Richard's mailing list, and managed to exploit both. Don't be jealous that he's now managed to rewrap that load in "Ancient Astronaut" hypothesis paper and tie on ribbons and paste on bows and sell it again.

*Scratches his head* I think you're misunderstanding me there, E.P. Never have I implied that I want David's job, or any work on TV for that matter.

If fame and fortune were granted to me, I'd rather they came due to my work as a designer ;)

I don't see the Paranormal as an avenue for economic gain, but as an avenue for personal growth.

It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

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epgrondine's picture
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Others here cinge when they hear David, RPJ, and my comment was forthem. They cringe as well, but for different reasons.

Its a slippery slope, RPJ, and once you start down it, there's David at the bottom with a pile of the Theosophist horsesh*t. So not only do you get to slip on the rabbit Sh*T on the way down, then you end up in a pile of theosophist horsesh*t.

Which kind of makes examining unusual phenomena difficult, and that's why you yourself are cringing.

The whole process is easier if you know about the Theosophist horsesh*t at the start.

I agree with others that your reports here on what is happening in Mexico are very insightful. Any luck in finding a classic rock Mariachi band?

{If I could now edit my earlier comment, I'd use the asterisk in "horsesh*t" to maintain the Grail's high standard.}

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

red pill junkie's picture
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I still think that what the Teosophists did was to first try to 'compile' a plethora of ancient traditions into a very attractive (read marketable) agglutinated philosophy. The merits of the philosophy and its interpretation can be questioned, but that shouldn't give us the right to discard the ancient traditions themselves.

IMO the problem with the Ancient Astronaut hypothesis is that people think of it as a credit card that can be easily maxed out if you're not careful. It's no wonder academic archeologists are annoyed by the likes of David who come and disregard the decades of long hard field work by using "aliens did it" as the answer to all the mysteries.

PS: No, I haven't found your classic Rock mariachi band, amigo ;)

It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

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oi vay

...I forgot how I got here but everyone seems to be heading off in that direction. I hope someone brought food. I have a feeling this is going to be a long journey................

epgrondine's picture
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red pill junkie wrote:

I still think that what the Teosophists did was to first try to 'compile' a plethora of ancient traditions into a very attractive (read marketable) agglutinated philosophy. The merits of the philosophy and its interpretation can be questioned, but that shouldn't give us the right to discard the ancient traditions themselves.

IMO the problem with the Ancient Astronaut hypothesis is that people think of it as a credit card that can be easily maxed out if you're not careful. It's no wonder academic archeologists are annoyed by the likes of David who come and disregard the decades of long hard field work by using "aliens did it" as the answer to all the mysteries.

PS: No, I haven't found your classic Rock mariachi band, amigo ;)

Well, it looks like Cheech and Chong still have an opening to develop an entirely new sound for their next movie.

What the modern Theosophists did is set out in my little history of the fringe, as well as what Richard Kieninger did with it. You pretty much summed it all up in far fewer words. But my version has way more sex and intrigue.

Any re-incarnation cult is inherently racist, and evil. I suspect what is happening is that trans-time telepathic experiences are allowing some people to con others into thinking they are superior. Its perfect for lumpen prole who have fallen from the middle class, or for those whose academic abilities failed.

Speaking of ancient traditions, W.K.C. Guthrie in his book "Orpheus and Greek Religion" summed up re-incarnation's evils and how and when it develops better than I ever could. A great read, though not lightweight.

I don't believe there is a get out of hell free card. Even though I do like Ganesh, I think that India's Hinduism is going to retard its future growth and prosperity, as no one is "born to suffer".

As I see it, the problem with these ancient aliens folks' "research" is different: it's tough to try to find actual evidence of ET contact through all the horsesh*t. It also irritates me when they "steal" Native American technical feats. But that's just my personal point of view.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

red pill junkie's picture
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Lately I've been thinking about the whole re-incarnation business, coupled with the many things David has proposed re. consciousness permeating everything in the Universe.

So maybe what happens is that we die, and all the bits and pieces that formed our particular consciousness that we regarded as 'E.p Grondine' and 'Red Pill Junkie' are scattered, and later they are condensed in a random pattern that forms around the 'consciousness node' of another sentient being.

Kind of like your iPhone making very interesting playlists if you turn on the 'shuffle songs' mode ;)

So, in that sense, some people would like to say they are the re-incarnation of Napoleon or queen Elizabeth or whatever famous historical figure they fancy; and in a sense they could be right. BUT they fail to recognize they are also the re-incarnation of a myriad regular Joes & Janes whose names were never honored with a mention in the history logs ;)

It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

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LastLoup's picture
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......but i imagine it's like that scene in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory where they defrag the candy bar and reanimate it on the other side of the room in a TV set. I believe that (assuming reincarnation is real) if you were able to remember your past lives you may long for something you had in the past and not be able to move on with your current life. I'd also like to excite the wrath of certain other members of this blog and say that it may be some of those Joes and Janes were animals. Many, including Theosophists, believe it is impossible for humans and animals to exist on the same "line" of energy that humans do. Therefore a dog, for example, having only the "group spirit" of the canine kind can only exist within that realm and thus become a dog again. However I'd like to take the Final Fantasy: Spirits Within road and state that animals may be "recycled" into the earth's energy (Gaia) and come back as anything because we are all part of earth's energy.

WHEW!!! That was fun.......:)

...I forgot how I got here but everyone seems to be heading off in that direction. I hope someone brought food. I have a feeling this is going to be a long journey................

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i agree that he makes too many "leaps" without looking down. i have some faith in humanity that they could actually build pyramids and have mathematical skills enough to make monuments without aliens having to coax them and baby them through every thing.

...I forgot how I got here but everyone seems to be heading off in that direction. I hope someone brought food. I have a feeling this is going to be a long journey................

red pill junkie's picture
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I kinda feel the same way. Time to get another coffee cup I guess ;)

It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

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Just so long as it's not "Sorry for the Inconvenience" in Helvetica 1 million Bold.

Though I think Ted Nugent classifies as an alien technology.

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All that lives is holy, life delights in life.

--William Blake

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Well, just for starters I am pretty sure that Bigfoot is a product of ET engineering which then of course begs the next question - are we? I have also heard that ring tailed lemurs are favorite pets on some ET ships, and that they also have these creatures on board specially bred to make eyeballs for the little grey automatons when their eyes burn out and need replacing. It looks to me like the best place to start looking for ET tehcnology is in the genetic code, and of course there are elaborate theories about that sort of thing already. As our understanding of genetics advances we continue bumping into startling things in the the genetic code that don't make any sense unless there were timely insertions of code at a rate far in excess of what natural selection can achieve.

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OOh cool.

Quote:

'genetic code that don't make any sense unless there were timely insertions of code at a rate far in excess of what natural selection can achieve'

Firstly it's nice to see some biological evolution chat, secondly - which bits have been shown to be out of place? I'm trying to imagine what it might look like not in the DNA per-se though there are ways it might stand out, but in the process of evolution over time. Mutation occurs at a rough base rate that biology students are expected to be able to work out from base principles. It might be a bit simplistic, but I imagine the molecular clock, as it was called when I studied in palaeontology, to be sort of akin to the processes underlying randomness in radioactive decay as well as how a metal bar requires a certain force on it to snap - so the bonds between molecules in genes create a certain 'strength' that is put under pressure, resulting in occasional breaks and mutations. Obviously that's just how I visualise it though, not what I expect to be going on. So biology student work out the rough rate of mutation from first principles, then use homology in sequences within genes between species to estimate the time interval since the genes started on separate evolutionary pathways (diverged).

If aliens put a message in the gene of an animal, say, 25,000,000 years ago we would see the message in all descendent animals, but with different mutations affecting different parts of the message at different rates dependant on the mutation rate of individual sections of the genes - again, all worked out from first principles. That would be fascinating as we could not only say which animal had had the message inserted, but when.

So the more animals contain the message the older the message is (or the more it was put into, but again we should be able to track multiple insertions using the same principles of ancestry) - and the more corruption of the message we should expect (though you might be able to rebuild most of it, especially if it was repetitive across different genes with different mutation rates etc).

I guess if you wanted to store a message it would be best to stick it in DNA that is inactive, else who knows what will happen - unless the message you want to send is something functional, like opposable thumbs, or a bigger brain. Obviously evolution adds some problems since the random component means noise is added. If your big plan was for big brains to come about over 3 million years (a short space of time really) then you'd have to account for likely variation over this time. Maybe do it on many planets and accept that a few would fail.

Star trek TNG did a similar story, though very simplistically and in a way that was science silly (obviously they didn't have to worry about what would make the plan hard since they can just say that the meta-flappy-gravo-stabiliser inverted the polaron field generators and created a meta-flux indibulator). In that story the aliens did it from 4 billion years ago - injecting their form into species and letting it play out. The old idea of directed evolution that flies in the face of genetic theory and physics, i.e showing mutation from first principles to be a natural occurance resulting from bonding rates between molecules within genes etc. If you want to direct evolution then you need non-random mutation in a certain direction (like we do with genetic algorithms to design new tools and processes), not fully random.

If we can safety spot if a GM company inserts genes, or to a degree edits genes, in a plant or animal then I guess we can tell if aliens did it - especially if they wanted to be obvious. I don't know if an argument about subtlety works well when its about correlation in ancestry and biological chemistry from first principles. It should stand out enough to be visible, or arguably the message is lost. Unless it is something like if we spread bacteria to another planet. Who knows what would happen 4 billion years later, and no doubt they would be debating the same as us. I don't know whether I would call that a message in the same way as what 'message' implies though.

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emlong,

Indeed, neo-darwinism is just 1 of the more than 5 models that attempt to come up with mechanisms for evolution. Some even are telogical.

There's a book you might enjoy: A Planet of Viruses by Carl Zimmer. It's a science book, but its a fascinating look at how important and vital viruses have been and are in our biosphere.

---------
All that lives is holy, life delights in life.

--William Blake

daydreamer's picture
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That made me chuckle!

Quote:

It's a science book, but its a fascinating look at

The complexity of evolution really blows the mind. We all know the nice clean tree structure we learn't as kids is, well, for kids, but bloomin-eck the whole subject is about as big a thing as is understandable - or not.

I would say that there are lots more than 5 models of mechanisms for evolution. We can come up with our own right here and add another one.
Generally though the ideas aren't about brand new ways or attempts to throw out selection pressures on genes, but instead about how the varying selection pressures function in relation to each other and at varying scales.

Proof for genes and selection pressures abounds and while I like some of the other ideas in the same way as I like some stories I haven't yet seen any evidence for them of the same quality as 'normal' evolution, which is still such a grand concept that it should blow our minds away - or does mine anyway. Who knows though, one day maybe, but right now I don't see that the others explain much of what is seen in biology (and related fields).

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Do try to cope with them big words in that book, daydreamer :P

It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

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daydreamer's picture
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Lol, I have trouble with it. What is it again. Sky, ski, scor, sy an se. Ah shucks. Its probably not for me anyway, bloomin ivory tower wizards in their funny hats.

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From:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thre...

"One thing that always has puzzled me is that no scientist has ever been able to explain properly the existence in modern human blood of the so-called Rh-Negative Factor... which is generally a result of hybrid breeding between distinct species.

This RH Negative Factor is generally brushed under the carpet as a "mutation of unknown Origin", which suddenly “happened” in Europe, around 45,000-55,000 years ago. Then this [hybrid? Randomly mutated?] group of hominids called “Cro Magnon” (which is what modern Europeans are today) purportedly spread very quickly into the area of what is now Spain, France, Germany, Switzerland as well as into England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, etc.

During the process of “Allo-immunization” which occurs during the act of giving live birth (as with cro-magnon man), blood cells from the unborn child can actually escape into the mother's bloodstream.

These cells are recognized as “foreign” if they are a wholly “different” blood-type from the mother------- and a natural rejection process will generally ensue with the formation of antibodies to the invading cells. This process is known as red cell alloimmunization.

In more than 98% of cases, this red blood cell “incompatibility” involves the Rhesus or Rh D antigen [Rh-negative Factor] so the disease is known as Rhesus disease or Rh disease.

Although the exact percentage varies with race, 15% of the United States population is Rh-negative and 85% is Rh-positive.

If a Rh-negative woman conceives a child with a Rh-positive partner, the potential exists for the child to inherit its father's Rh-positive blood type.

There are two types of Rh-positive men. In 55% of individuals, the man is heterozygous. In these cases, his genetics allow him to produce Rh-negative offspring 50% of the time and Rh-positive offspring the remaining 50% of the time.

In the second type of a Rh-positive individual, only Rh-positive offspring can result, a condition known as the “homozygous state.”

So... Rh-negative women with a Rh-positive partner are at RISK of spontaneous miscarriage and other fetus REJECTION events.

Again….Hmmmm.

Moreover, an Rh-negative woman with a Rh-negative partner has even a smaller chance of having a Baby born alive...

NB: In animals this is seen as a problem, but ONLY in HYBRID Animals.

Could this be a vestige of some HYBRIDIZATION back around 50,000 years ago between an alien race and the Neanderthal in Europe?"

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Hi Emlong,

From an admittedly cursory read it looks like the Rh negative blood group is simply a blood group, like A and O etc, but one that is dying out in the animal kingdom. I'd have to read more to try and get my head around it - i'm not a biologist. The idea that its an alien hybridisation with humans though does not fare well if it is a blood group that is becoming extinct in mammals, but still has little niches, like us and a few other species. Unless aliens hybridised with them as well.

I'm not going to claim knowledge on the matter, but I'd start by trying to piece together the phylogenetic tree of the blood type. How old is it, what species still have it, how common was it in the past etc.

Also, if it is a mutation that occurred X number of years ago then obviously it will have been a mutation of a pre-existing gene - otherwise it would stand out like a sore thumb. We might try and date that gene etc. It would be interesting to see how old the gene is, because that affects how many species it is in.

Basically your piece just begs lots of questions and reading. It doesn't matter if no-one has figured it out.

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..

petelyon73's picture
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yup....what he said..........

We will always ask questions, for as long as the sky is blue and our arse points to the ground.

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http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel....

Here above is a slightly more elaborate take on the quandary. I am not blindly advocating for this theory only proffering it an example of a place to look for alien "technology."

A similar theory about the sudden and anomalous appearance of the faculty of speech in human is said by some to be a possible sign of genetic manipulation as well.

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You have a better mind for biology than I do if you've read up and learn't all this stuff. It gives me a headache in 2 minutes flat.

Researching it is awkward. The top 10 returns in google for Rh-Negative and evolution lean heavily towards bible quotations, not including wiki, though that page is not helpful.

The next 30 links are just bible references as well.

I found 1 paper, it was about duplication of the Rh locus from the ancestor of humans, chimpanzees and gorillas, but I can't even tell if it is related to this - it's too biologically technical for me.

Of interest though - my wife is Rh Negative. The site you list says Rh negative people have lots of common features, but none of them are common to her except being colder - though she is pretty skinny. Having said that I haven't tried cloning her yet. That was on my list for next week ;)

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Among people who claim to have experienced what we now categorize as 'alien abduction', there seems to be a significant incidence of individuals with Rh negative.

Just a cool fact to let you ponder over the weekend :P

It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me...
It's all the rabbit SH*T you stumble over on your way down!!!

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daydreamer's picture
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I can't find anything on it except for blog entries and peoples personal hypothesis.

My only question is why testing these weird claims about Rh Neg, such as 'science cannot explain' (said in a B movie trailer voice) the origin etc.

Sometimes I get the feeling that all the poop overwhelms google so if you want to research something it becomes increasingly difficult. Again, all I seem to be able to find are bible quotes and links to the same abovetopsecret site + the page from that site copied into blogs infinitum. Oh, for a biology book on Rh Neg.

Anyway, back to where it came from. I can't see it should be a problem to trace it's origin to it's rough starting point and then homing in more thoroughly using normal genetic tools.

For example, the alien astronaut theory is something of a sliding scale of genetics. Aliens arrive and see humans and think, cool, there's the little devils, 'no sex boys, we'll have none of that here - lets hybridize'. So off they set. They pick the section of our genome that's going to bring about all these cool abilities (most of which I seem to have by the way without Rh Neg) and then they start adding/editing. But what do they add or change. We are descendents through evolution so any tampering will show up. It changes the genome. If you don't understand how subtle things show up then you might imagine the 'appearance' of something new, like Rh Negative blood or opposable thumbs, or anything really, can be used as evidence for genetic tampering, but it's not like that.

Take the exmaple of you and your family members. You all share the same genes with slight changes to some of them. If an evil scientist comes along and changes or inserts a whole gene then comparison to your relatives will show which on has been changed. This is because only small scale changes are allowed. The processes of genetics and evolution, such as mutation or duplication happen to us all so there is a standard deviation.

You couldn't just pop along and make sudden large changes without it standing out like a sore thumb. It would be obviously designed, not evolved. What I mean is that the processes of natural evolution and intelligent design are different to each other, and what a designer can do natural evolution cannot. It should be obvious to tell the difference.

I am doing my best to find what mutational changes happened for Rh Neg. But the sliding scale I referred to about the alien astronaut hypothesis is because evolution would have made a small change here that would then be spread throughout the geographical ancestor population, followed later by another little change here and further spreading such that by mapping these variations now we can backtrack the mutations to the last common ancestor before Rh Neg (presumably thats the one thought to be around 40,000 years ago (and where does that figure come from if scientists haven't done this work???)).

It's interesting stuff, but the fact that it isn't all over the science papers that the Rh Neg gene/genes show too rapid a diversification of information - or even better a new pattern of information unattainable by modification and duplication of ancestor genetic material makes me lean towards scepticism on this one.

At least until I can read something other than bible quotes and the same abovetopsecret claims, none of which link to any studies or information even for their more normal claims, such as the Basque people having larger breastbones, or a unique language.

I don't know. There is just so much in this idea that is testable that it seems odd to me supporters of the idea do not present more - it feels like they are not trying very hard on this one.

emlong's picture
Member since:
18 September 2007
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8 hours 23 min

If aliens of an advanced technic have been zomming aorund this planet for millions of years what are the odds that they would "not" husband our genes? Very long odds there. Just look at what we are doing now that the genetic Pandora's box has been opened. We are really going to town with it.
Once you are convinced that the ET brothers have been here so long that they have just as much a place in the biome as we do a very safe conjecture would be that they have probably been a'tinkering. We may or may not have evidence yet, or that evidence may be "classified," but just given what quite a few of us here really believe about the space brothers it is highly probable that we have been guided by more than just natural selection and accidents, ie the human genetic code would be a good place to look for advanced technological manipulation.
Of course, it also just as likely that such manipulations were simultaneously carted off for further development elsewhere. The tampering might not necessarily show up in us because it may never have been about us. It was about creating a hybrid that lives on some other planet.

daydreamer's picture
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21 February 2009
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1 year 42 weeks

Yep, certainly aliens could have kidnapped people and run off with them.

I think the argument for something like artificial selection over millions of years is an interesting one. I think it's going to take quite a bit more research to investigate this one. Firstly biologists need to identify which gene complex's do what, then look at how they differ from modern day gene pools. Over periods of millions of years genes can be passed to many descendent species. This needs corroborating across the gene pools. Much work to test the hypothesis.

As you say, no evidence of this is currently in the public domain. Of course we have sequenced the human genome (or at least one anyway) and compared this to relative genomes.

Its going to be very interesting to see where these hypothesis are in 20 years.

lightkeeper's picture
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30 April 2004
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51 weeks 3 days

We all need an unbiased scientific method and evidence for a clearer understanding of where we came from. Belief takes over where evidence runs short but then we are left with someone holding a book wanting our undivided attention and demanding that we know ever word they say is true because it is in the book. What if the ancient aliens (even the Gods) are still humans? Again evidence must be followed but the Vedas have references to space men and interplanetary travelers that were us from the Earth. How would a human develop that had been conceived and born in zero gravity of space? After a few generations changes would make a human life form seem "alien" and by our standards they would be. We call our neighbors from other nations "aliens" and they are almost just like us maybe just not as funny looking as we are. While alien "aliens" are a possibility it seems our ancestors left written word that they are "us" if we can read objectively and not get bogged done with all the gods. Humans living on space bases of the moon or other worlds and space stations (like in the book/movie Dune) would probably develop into beings not recognized as Earth humans due to differing influences of gravity.
Having achieved a high degree of technology thousands of years ago and left the nest of Earth they would naturally have a fondness of home and be concerned by our development. Some evidence for a global war that caused the global collapse of our social structure appears to have happened around the end of the last ice age. Many enlightened people have told me that we are being watched to ensure that we never allow this to happen again. Wishful thinking aside, the reports of UFOs and nuclear facilities show an interest in observing our activities and twice they did intervene with the missile controls. At least this is all I am aware of. It is great that we are looking for answers and trying to place connections from the information we have to work with. The tools we now have to break down the walls of ignorance and see the light for ourselves is rapidly closing in on the few that want to keep us silent and obedient only to themselves and not the truth. We don't have any extraterrestrial DNA to make a comparison with so would we know it if we saw it?

emlong's picture
Member since:
18 September 2007
Last activity:
8 hours 23 min

Perhaps this now ungainly in length thread could be resumed in a thread I started a few days ago:

http://www.dailygrail.com/blogs/emlong/2...